[soft electronic music] [soft electronic music] >> I THINK THE WAY ART COMES >> I THINK THE WAY ART COMES INTO THE WORLD IS THROUGH INTO THE WORLD IS THROUGH A METAPHYSICAL PROCESS.

A METAPHYSICAL PROCESS.

>> AN ARTWORK CAN TRANSPORT >> AN ARTWORK CAN TRANSPORT A PERSON IN A SOULFUL, RICH WAY A PERSON IN A SOULFUL, RICH WAY WITHOUT FEAR OF PUNISHMENT OR WITHOUT FEAR OF PUNISHMENT OR ANY OF THOSE GOOD THINGS.

ANY OF THOSE GOOD THINGS.

>> USUALLY, A PHOTOGRAPH IS VERY >> USUALLY, A PHOTOGRAPH IS VERY PRECISE AND IT'S AN END PRODUCT.

PRECISE AND IT'S AN END PRODUCT.

I LIKE TO USE THE END PRODUCT I LIKE TO USE THE END PRODUCT AND TURN IT INTO AN UNFINISHED AND TURN IT INTO AN UNFINISHED STATE.

STATE.

>> I WAS WONDERING IF I COULD >> I WAS WONDERING IF I COULD HAVE MY OWN COMMUNITY AND MY OWN HAVE MY OWN COMMUNITY AND MY OWN CITY BUILT PURELY BY MYSELF, SO CITY BUILT PURELY BY MYSELF, SO I STARTED TO ENVISION WHAT THIS I STARTED TO ENVISION WHAT THIS CITY MIGHT LOOK LIKE.

>> PEOPLE THINK THAT I HAVE >> PEOPLE THINK THAT I HAVE A LARGE FACTORY THAT JUST KNOCKS A LARGE FACTORY THAT JUST KNOCKS OUT WORK.

OUT WORK.

IF YOU WANT TO MAKE PUBLIC WORKS IF YOU WANT TO MAKE PUBLIC WORKS IN DIFFERENT MEDIUMS, YOU HAVE IN DIFFERENT MEDIUMS, YOU HAVE TO HAVE SUPPORT.

I DO HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT I DO HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT WORK WITH ME, BUT WE MAKE VERY WORK WITH ME, BUT WE MAKE VERY FEW PAINTINGS A YEAR, BECAUSE IT FEW PAINTINGS A YEAR, BECAUSE IT TAKES A LONG TIME TO MAKE EACH TAKES A LONG TIME TO MAKE EACH ONE.

ONE.

I LEARNED AT A VERY YOUNG AGE I LEARNED AT A VERY YOUNG AGE HOW TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF, AND HOW TO TAKE CARE OF MYSELF, AND I'VE ALWAYS ENJOYED PROVIDING.

I'VE ALWAYS ENJOYED PROVIDING.

SO THE STUDIO'S REALLY AN SO THE STUDIO'S REALLY AN EXTENSION OF THAT.

EXTENSION OF THAT.

IT'S A SENSE OF COMMUNITY.

FROM THE TIME I WAS A CHILD, FROM THE TIME I WAS A CHILD, I WAS SELF-RELIANT.

I WAS SELF-RELIANT.

I WOULD GO DOOR-TO-DOOR, SELL I WOULD GO DOOR-TO-DOOR, SELL GIFT WRAPPING PAPER, CANDIES, GIFT WRAPPING PAPER, CANDIES, CHOCOLATES, AND I ALWAYS ENJOYED CHOCOLATES, AND I ALWAYS ENJOYED THAT I NEVER KNEW WHO WOULD OPEN THAT I NEVER KNEW WHO WOULD OPEN THAT DOOR.

THAT DOOR.

BUT IT'S THE SAME THING THAT'S BUT IT'S THE SAME THING THAT'S HAPPENING NOW AS AN ARTIST HAPPENING NOW AS AN ARTIST TODAY, WANTING THIS TODAY, WANTING THIS COMMUNICATION, THIS INTERACTION.

IT WASN'T TILL I GOT TO ART IT WASN'T TILL I GOT TO ART SCHOOL THAT I REALLY UNDERSTOOD SCHOOL THAT I REALLY UNDERSTOOD HOW ART CAN CONNECT YOU THROUGH HOW ART CAN CONNECT YOU THROUGH HUMAN HISTORY AND THE TYPE OF HUMAN HISTORY AND THE TYPE OF RESERVOIR THAT IT COULD BE.

RESERVOIR THAT IT COULD BE.

IF I LOOK AT ALL THE WORKS IF I LOOK AT ALL THE WORKS THAT I'VE DONE OVER THE YEARS, THAT I'VE DONE OVER THE YEARS, I CAN SEE THAT I CONTINUE WITH I CAN SEE THAT I CONTINUE WITH CERTAIN THEMES.

CERTAIN THEMES.

I LIKE FLOWERS.

I LIKE FLOWERS.

I LIKE CERTAIN SENSUAL IMAGES.

I LIKE CERTAIN SENSUAL IMAGES.

THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS THAT I THERE'S CERTAIN THINGS THAT I LIKE TO WORK WITH, 'CAUSE IT'S LIKE TO WORK WITH, 'CAUSE IT'S REALLY THE SAME INFORMATION, HOW REALLY THE SAME INFORMATION, HOW YOU LOOK AT LIFE AND SPIRITUAL YOU LOOK AT LIFE AND SPIRITUAL ASPECTS.

ASPECTS.

A LOT OF THINGS CONTINUE TO COME A LOT OF THINGS CONTINUE TO COME INTO PLAY.

INTO PLAY.

OBJECTS ARE METAPHORS FOR OBJECTS ARE METAPHORS FOR PEOPLE.

PEOPLE.

IT ALWAYS TURNS OUT TO IT ALWAYS TURNS OUT TO BE ABOUT OTHERS.

BE ABOUT OTHERS.

IT'S NOT ABOUT ACCEPTING THAT IT'S NOT ABOUT ACCEPTING THAT OBJECT, HIGH-LOW CULTURE.

OBJECT, HIGH-LOW CULTURE.

IT'S ABOUT THE ACCEPTANCE OF IT'S ABOUT THE ACCEPTANCE OF OTHERS.

>> YOU GOT EVERYTHING, CHRIS?

>> YOU GOT EVERYTHING, CHRIS?

>> I DON'T KNOW IF THESE WILL >> I DON'T KNOW IF THESE WILL WORK WITH THE FINS.

WORK WITH THE FINS.

YEAH, THESE BRACES WEREN'T THERE YEAH, THESE BRACES WEREN'T THERE WHEN WE FLIPPED IT.

WHEN WE FLIPPED IT.

>> WE'LL TAKE 'EM OUT THEM.

>> WE'LL TAKE 'EM OUT THEM.

>> YEAH.

>> YEAH.

>> SCREWDRIVER.

[high-pitched whining] >> WE'RE GONNA MAYBE LEAVE THIS >> WE'RE GONNA MAYBE LEAVE THIS ONE IN FOR THE TIME BEING.

ONE IN FOR THE TIME BEING.

>> I WASN'T ACTUALLY GONNA TAKE >> I WASN'T ACTUALLY GONNA TAKE IT OUT.

IT OUT.

I DID THAT ONE, AND I MISSED IT.

I DID THAT ONE, AND I MISSED IT.

>> 'CAUSE THEY'LL HAVE ENOUGH >> 'CAUSE THEY'LL HAVE ENOUGH ROOM.

ROOM.

>> YEAH, THIS ONE, I'M JUST >> YEAH, THIS ONE, I'M JUST GONNA LEAVE IT.

>> JEFF'S IMAGES ARE USUALLY >> JEFF'S IMAGES ARE USUALLY MADE UP OF MANY DIFFERENT MADE UP OF MANY DIFFERENT SOURCES.

SOURCES.

HE'LL COMPOSE THESE ON THE HE'LL COMPOSE THESE ON THE COMPUTER AND SPEND A FAIR AMOUNT COMPUTER AND SPEND A FAIR AMOUNT OF TIME COLOR CORRECTING.

OF TIME COLOR CORRECTING.

IT'S OUR JOB TO REPRODUCE AS IT'S OUR JOB TO REPRODUCE AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO THIS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE TO THIS REFERENCE, AND THEN WE WORK WITH REFERENCE, AND THEN WE WORK WITH HIM IN THE PAINTING PROCESS.

HIM IN THE PAINTING PROCESS.

WE TRACE THE DRAWING ON A LARGER WE TRACE THE DRAWING ON A LARGER SCALE.

SCALE.

WE HAVE TO MIX COLOR TO HIS WE HAVE TO MIX COLOR TO HIS LIKING.

LIKING.

EVERYTHING IS DONE THROUGH MAPS.

EVERYTHING IS DONE THROUGH MAPS.

FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE A MAP FOR EXAMPLE, WE HAVE A MAP FOR THE HAND.

FOR THE HAND.

WE HAVE 141 COLORS JUST FOR THE WE HAVE 141 COLORS JUST FOR THE FIST ON THAT PAINTING.

FIST ON THAT PAINTING.

IT'S ALWAYS AN ONGOING PROCESS IT'S ALWAYS AN ONGOING PROCESS TO TRY TO GET IT AS CLOSE TO THE TO TRY TO GET IT AS CLOSE TO THE REFERENCE AS POSSIBLE.

REFERENCE AS POSSIBLE.

>> SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU >> SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF YOU LOOKED IN HERE, WE HAVE NUMBER LOOKED IN HERE, WE HAVE NUMBER 21.

21.

WE WOULD HAVE SOMEBODY MIX WE WOULD HAVE SOMEBODY MIX ACTUAL COLOR THAT WOULD MATCH ACTUAL COLOR THAT WOULD MATCH THAT SPECIFIC AREA ON THE THAT SPECIFIC AREA ON THE PAINTING.

PAINTING.

WE MIX IT ON THE TABLE WE MIX IT ON THE TABLE OVER THERE.

OVER THERE.

WE BASICALLY MAKE A SWATCH.

WE BASICALLY MAKE A SWATCH.

USUALLY THREE OR FOUR PEOPLE USUALLY THREE OR FOUR PEOPLE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE COLOR AND HAVE TO LOOK AT THE COLOR AND AGREE IF IT MATCHES OR NOT, AND AGREE IF IT MATCHES OR NOT, AND THEN WE GO THROUGH AND TUBE THEN WE GO THROUGH AND TUBE THESE PAINTS AND HAVE BOXES FULL THESE PAINTS AND HAVE BOXES FULL OF ALL THE PAINTS THAT WE NEED.

OF ALL THE PAINTS THAT WE NEED.

FLESH IS A HARD ONE.

FLESH IS A HARD ONE.

JEFF'S VERY PARTICULAR ON THE JEFF'S VERY PARTICULAR ON THE FLESH, SO ONCE WE FIND SOMEONE FLESH, SO ONCE WE FIND SOMEONE THAT WE LIKE THAT DOES IT THE THAT WE LIKE THAT DOES IT THE WAY WE WANT, IT'S VERY HARD TO WAY WE WANT, IT'S VERY HARD TO KEEP 'EM AROUND, DOING IT GOOD.

KEEP 'EM AROUND, DOING IT GOOD.

WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT PAINT WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT PAINT INFLATABLES REALLY WELL.

INFLATABLES REALLY WELL.

PEOPLE SPECIALIZE IN CERTAIN PEOPLE SPECIALIZE IN CERTAIN THINGS.

THINGS.

THE WAY WE PAINT HERE IS VERY THE WAY WE PAINT HERE IS VERY PARTICULAR.

PARTICULAR.

IT'S VERY SMOOTH.

IT'S VERY SMOOTH.

SO WE HAVE TO WATCH OUT THAT SO WE HAVE TO WATCH OUT THAT PEOPLE AREN'T PAINTING TOO PEOPLE AREN'T PAINTING TOO THICK.

THICK.

IT'S KIND OF AN IRREVERSIBLE IT'S KIND OF AN IRREVERSIBLE THING.

THING.

YOU CAN'T REALLY FIX THAT.

YOU CAN'T REALLY FIX THAT.

BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, IT'S BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, IT'S THREE PEOPLE ON A PAINTING AT THREE PEOPLE ON A PAINTING AT ALL TIMES, AND IT'S PROBABLY SIX ALL TIMES, AND IT'S PROBABLY SIX TO EIGHT MONTHS FOR A PAINTING, TO EIGHT MONTHS FOR A PAINTING, SOMETIMES LONGER.

SOMETIMES LONGER.

IDEAS CHANGE, TECHNIQUES CHANGE, IDEAS CHANGE, TECHNIQUES CHANGE, SO IT'S ALWAYS EVOLVING INTO SO IT'S ALWAYS EVOLVING INTO DIFFERENT THINGS.

DIFFERENT THINGS.

I'VE SEEN JEFF WORK ON SOME OF I'VE SEEN JEFF WORK ON SOME OF THE PAINTINGS YEARS AGO.

THE PAINTINGS YEARS AGO.

I HAVEN'T SEEN HIM WORK SO MUCH I HAVEN'T SEEN HIM WORK SO MUCH NOW.

NOW.

THE PAINTING PROCESS I SEE HIM THE PAINTING PROCESS I SEE HIM WORKING IS ON THE COMPUTER.

WORKING IS ON THE COMPUTER.

HE'LL KEEP COMPOSING THE IMAGE HE'LL KEEP COMPOSING THE IMAGE UNTIL HE'S HAPPY WITH IT.

UNTIL HE'S HAPPY WITH IT.

THAT'S PRIMARILY WHERE I SEE THAT'S PRIMARILY WHERE I SEE MOST OF HIS TIME SPENT.

MOST OF HIS TIME SPENT.

BUT HE'S MORE HANDS-ON IN COMING BUT HE'S MORE HANDS-ON IN COMING IN DAILY AND GIVING US GUIDANCE IN DAILY AND GIVING US GUIDANCE ON WHAT HE WANTS AND HOW TO ON WHAT HE WANTS AND HOW TO EXECUTE IT TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE EXECUTE IT TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE WHAT HE WANTS IT TO LOOK LIKE.

>> I THINK THE WAY ART COMES >> I THINK THE WAY ART COMES INTO THE WORLD IS THROUGH INTO THE WORLD IS THROUGH A METAPHYSICAL PROCESS.

A METAPHYSICAL PROCESS.

IF YOU TRY TO CREATE ART, IF YOU TRY TO CREATE ART, IT'S A DECORATIVE PROCESS.

IT'S A DECORATIVE PROCESS.

YOU'RE JUST WASTING TIME, YOU'RE JUST WASTING TIME, SPINNING GEARS UNTIL YOU GET SO SPINNING GEARS UNTIL YOU GET SO BORED WITH YOURSELF THAT YOU BORED WITH YOURSELF THAT YOU JUST STOP THE PROCESS AND SAY, JUST STOP THE PROCESS AND SAY, "OKAY, WHAT DO I REALLY WANT "OKAY, WHAT DO I REALLY WANT TO DO?

TO DO?

WHAT AM I INTERESTED IN?"

WHAT AM I INTERESTED IN?"

AND YOU FOCUS ON IT, AND BEFORE AND YOU FOCUS ON IT, AND BEFORE YOU KNOW IT, YOU'RE IN THAT YOU KNOW IT, YOU'RE IN THAT METAPHYSICAL PLACE.

THAT'S THAT'S PROBABLY ONE OF MY KIND OF PROBABLY ONE OF MY KIND OF DARKER WORKS, AND I WORKED WITH DARKER WORKS, AND I WORKED WITH WOOD BECAUSE I WANTED TO WORK WOOD BECAUSE I WANTED TO WORK WITH A MATERIAL THAT HAD WITH A MATERIAL THAT HAD A SPIRITUAL SIDE, A SPIRITUAL SIDE, THAT'S A LIVING MATERIAL.

THAT'S A LIVING MATERIAL.

IT KEEPS MOVING.

IT KEEPS MOVING.

THE CHURCH HAS USED IT FOR THE CHURCH HAS USED IT FOR A VERY KIND OF SPIRITUAL ASPECT A VERY KIND OF SPIRITUAL ASPECT TO ITS NATURE.

TO ITS NATURE.

IS AN IMAGE IS AN IMAGE OF A BEAR THAT'S REALLY KIND OF OF A BEAR THAT'S REALLY KIND OF OUTGROWN THE SYMBOL OF OUTGROWN THE SYMBOL OF AUTHORITY, AND IT'S LARGER THAN AUTHORITY, AND IT'S LARGER THAN THE BOBBY, THE POLICEMAN BOBBY THE BOBBY, THE POLICEMAN BOBBY THAT'S THERE.

THAT'S THERE.

AND IT'S READY TO BLOW THE AND IT'S READY TO BLOW THE BOBBY'S WHISTLE.

BOBBY'S WHISTLE.

THERE IS KIND OF A SENSE OF THERE IS KIND OF A SENSE OF SEXUAL HUMILIATION THERE THROUGH SEXUAL HUMILIATION THERE THROUGH OVERPOWERING THE BOBBY, AND THAT OVERPOWERING THE BOBBY, AND THAT PIECE, FOR ME, IS REALLY PIECE, FOR ME, IS REALLY SPEAKING ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW, SPEAKING ABOUT THAT, YOU KNOW, ART SHOULD BE SOMETHING REALLY ART SHOULD BE SOMETHING REALLY POWERFUL.

POWERFUL.

ARTISTS SHOULD EMBRACE ALL THE ARTISTS SHOULD EMBRACE ALL THE TOOLS OF ART TO COMMUNICATE AS TOOLS OF ART TO COMMUNICATE AS STRONGLY AS POSSIBLE, STRONGLY AS POSSIBLE, AS CLEARLY AS POSSIBLE WITH AS AS CLEARLY AS POSSIBLE WITH AS MUCH A VIRILE QUALITY.

MUCH A VIRILE QUALITY.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, THERE'S A MORALITY THAT COMES THERE'S A MORALITY THAT COMES ALONG WITH THAT, AND THAT'S JUST ALONG WITH THAT, AND THAT'S JUST THE RESPECT OF OTHER PEOPLE, THE RESPECT OF OTHER PEOPLE, THAT THEIR RIGHTS ARE EQUAL THAT THEIR RIGHTS ARE EQUAL TO YOURS.

TO YOURS.

BEAR AND POLICEMAN BEAR AND POLICEMAN WAS ALWAYS LIKE ART HAVING THAT WAS ALWAYS LIKE ART HAVING THAT POWER BUT BEING MISUSED AND POWER BUT BEING MISUSED AND GOING OUT OF CONTROL.

GOING OUT OF CONTROL.

AND IT ALWAYS REMINDED ME, LIKE, AND IT ALWAYS REMINDED ME, LIKE, OF HITLER.

OF HITLER.

SO I WAS TRYING TO COMMUNICATE, SO I WAS TRYING TO COMMUNICATE, AGAIN, ARTISTS SHOULD EMBRACE AGAIN, ARTISTS SHOULD EMBRACE ALL THE POWERS OF ART, BUT ALL THE POWERS OF ART, BUT THERE'S A MORAL RESPONSIBILITY THERE'S A MORAL RESPONSIBILITY THAT COMES WITH IT.

IS ALSO IS ALSO FROM THE BANALITY SERIES.

FROM THE BANALITY SERIES.

IT'S ALSO MADE OUT OF WOOD.

IT'S ALSO MADE OUT OF WOOD.

I ALWAYS FELT THAT IT WAS I ALWAYS FELT THAT IT WAS A LITTLE AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL.

A LITTLE AUTOBIOGRAPHICAL.

THE YOUNG BOY IN THE BACK THE YOUNG BOY IN THE BACK PUSHING THE PIG, I ALWAYS PUSHING THE PIG, I ALWAYS THOUGHT OF AS MYSELF PUSHING IN THOUGHT OF AS MYSELF PUSHING IN THIS BELIEF OF REALLY TRYING TO THIS BELIEF OF REALLY TRYING TO MAKE WORK THAT WOULD COMMUNICATE MAKE WORK THAT WOULD COMMUNICATE TO PEOPLE THAT THEIR OWN TO PEOPLE THAT THEIR OWN CULTURAL HISTORY TO THAT MOMENT CULTURAL HISTORY TO THAT MOMENT WAS PERFECT, ABSOLUTELY PERFECT.

WAS PERFECT, ABSOLUTELY PERFECT.

CULTURAL HISTORY, PERSONAL CULTURAL HISTORY, PERSONAL HISTORY, EVERYTHING IS PERFECT, HISTORY, EVERYTHING IS PERFECT, AND THAT THAT WOULD GIVE THEM AND THAT THAT WOULD GIVE THEM A FOUNDATION TO MOVE FORWARD A FOUNDATION TO MOVE FORWARD IN LIFE.

IN LIFE.

YOU KNOW, ART CAN BE SOMETHING YOU KNOW, ART CAN BE SOMETHING WHICH CAN REALLY DISEMPOWER WHICH CAN REALLY DISEMPOWER PEOPLE AND CAN MAKE THEM FEEL PEOPLE AND CAN MAKE THEM FEEL COMPLETELY INFERIOR--AND SOME COMPLETELY INFERIOR--AND SOME PEOPLE CAN GET A SENSE OF POWER PEOPLE CAN GET A SENSE OF POWER FROM THAT--OR IT CAN BE FROM THAT--OR IT CAN BE A VEHICLE WHICH CAN A VEHICLE WHICH CAN EMPOWER PEOPLE.

EMPOWER PEOPLE.

AND I ALSO GET A SENSE OF POWER AND I ALSO GET A SENSE OF POWER FROM EMPOWERING.

FROM EMPOWERING.

THERE ARE THEATRICAL ASPECTS THERE ARE THEATRICAL ASPECTS TAKING PLACE IN VERSAILLES.

TAKING PLACE IN VERSAILLES.

MY ARTWORKS WANT TO SHOW MY ARTWORKS WANT TO SHOW THEMSELVES.

THEMSELVES.

THE ARTWORKS ARE EXTROVERTED.

THE ARTWORKS ARE EXTROVERTED.

THE MAJOR SALONS ARE ABOUT THE MAJOR SALONS ARE ABOUT PUBLIC INTERACTION.

PUBLIC INTERACTION.

IT'S FOR THE PUBLIC TO BE THERE.

IT'S FOR THE PUBLIC TO BE THERE.

I HAD TO POSITION MYSELF IN I HAD TO POSITION MYSELF IN A CERTAIN WAY EVEN TO BE A CERTAIN WAY EVEN TO BE ACCEPTED WITHIN THAT SITUATION ACCEPTED WITHIN THAT SITUATION OF LOUIS XIV, JUST LIKE ANY OF LOUIS XIV, JUST LIKE ANY ARTIST OF THE COURT WOULD HAVE ARTIST OF THE COURT WOULD HAVE TO PRESENT THEMSELF IN A CERTAIN TO PRESENT THEMSELF IN A CERTAIN WAY.

WAY.

THE WAY I DID THAT, I SHOWED MY THE WAY I DID THAT, I SHOWED MY SELF-PORTRAIT BUST, AND I PUT SELF-PORTRAIT BUST, AND I PUT THE BUST ON TOP OF A PLINTH THAT THE BUST ON TOP OF A PLINTH THAT WAS DESIGNED BY BERNINI, SO IT WAS DESIGNED BY BERNINI, SO IT WAS QUITE HIGH.

WAS QUITE HIGH.

IT WAS PROBABLY ABOUT 11 FEET UP IT WAS PROBABLY ABOUT 11 FEET UP IN THE AIR.

IN THE AIR.

AND I REMEMBER WHEN I MADE THIS AND I REMEMBER WHEN I MADE THIS SUGGESTION, SOME OF THE SUGGESTION, SOME OF THE ASSISTANTS AT VERSAILLES STARTED ASSISTANTS AT VERSAILLES STARTED TO GIGGLE.

TO GIGGLE.

THEY THOUGHT, "HOW COULD HE DO THEY THOUGHT, "HOW COULD HE DO THAT?

THAT?

HOW COULD HE, YOU KNOW, PUT HOW COULD HE, YOU KNOW, PUT HIMSELF ON SUCH A POSITION LIKE HIMSELF ON SUCH A POSITION LIKE THAT ON A BERNINI BASE?"

THAT ON A BERNINI BASE?"

BUT I REALIZED THAT THAT WAS BUT I REALIZED THAT THAT WAS KIND OF NECESSARY, AND THAT WAS KIND OF NECESSARY, AND THAT WAS ACROSS FROM THE PORTRAIT OF ACROSS FROM THE PORTRAIT OF LOUIS XIV BY RIGAUD, AND I THINK LOUIS XIV BY RIGAUD, AND I THINK IT WORKED, AND I THINK LOUIS XIV IT WORKED, AND I THINK LOUIS XIV APPRECIATED IT.

APPRECIATED IT.

WHEN I'M AT VERSAILLES, IT NEVER WHEN I'M AT VERSAILLES, IT NEVER REALLY SEEMS TO BE ABOUT EXCESS, REALLY SEEMS TO BE ABOUT EXCESS, BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO BE ABOUT BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO BE ABOUT DETAIL AND ENJOYING THE DETAIL.

I REALLY ENJOYED THE LOBSTER I REALLY ENJOYED THE LOBSTER HANGING--I THINK IT WAS IN THE HANGING--I THINK IT WAS IN THE SALON DE MARS.

SALON DE MARS.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE LOBSTER, IT'S IF YOU LOOK AT THE LOBSTER, IT'S A LITTLE BIT LIKE A PERFORMER, A LITTLE BIT LIKE A PERFORMER, LIKE AN ACROBAT, KIND OF BROAD LIKE AN ACROBAT, KIND OF BROAD ARMS, AND THE TENTACLES ARE LIKE ARMS, AND THE TENTACLES ARE LIKE A MUSTACHE.

A MUSTACHE.

BUT IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY, THE BUT IF YOU LOOK CLOSELY, THE GRAPHICS ON THE LOBSTER ARE LIKE GRAPHICS ON THE LOBSTER ARE LIKE SOMEBODY BEING BURNED AT THE SOMEBODY BEING BURNED AT THE STAKE.

STAKE.

SO YOU ALSO HAVE THIS SENSE THAT SO YOU ALSO HAVE THIS SENSE THAT IF YOU'RE IN THE PUBLIC EYE LONG IF YOU'RE IN THE PUBLIC EYE LONG ENOUGH, THAT'S AN INEVITABLE ENOUGH, THAT'S AN INEVITABLE FATE.

TO BE ABLE TO HAVE AN EXHIBITION TO BE ABLE TO HAVE AN EXHIBITION AT VERSAILLES, IT'S REALLY AT VERSAILLES, IT'S REALLY A SPECIAL OPPORTUNITY.

I SPENT ABOUT FIVE WEEKS OF THE I SPENT ABOUT FIVE WEEKS OF THE SUMMER BEING IN THE GARDENS AND SUMMER BEING IN THE GARDENS AND GOING THROUGH THE PALACE, AND GOING THROUGH THE PALACE, AND SPLIT ROCKER.

SPLIT ROCKER.

THERE ARE 90,000 FLOWERS, AND I THERE ARE 90,000 FLOWERS, AND I WORKED WITH A TEAM OF GARDENERS WORKED WITH A TEAM OF GARDENERS FROM VERSAILLES.

FROM VERSAILLES.

AND THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT AND THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT I EVER PLANTED A FLORAL PIECE I EVER PLANTED A FLORAL PIECE COMPLETELY MATHEMATICALLY.

COMPLETELY MATHEMATICALLY.

IT'S BASED ON A PATTERN OF FIVE IT'S BASED ON A PATTERN OF FIVE PLANTS.

PLANTS.

I HAVE DIFFERENT LIGHT COLORS I HAVE DIFFERENT LIGHT COLORS AND DARK COLORS AND MID COLORS.

AND DARK COLORS AND MID COLORS.

BUT IT'S ALL DONE IN BUT IT'S ALL DONE IN MATHEMATICAL PATTERNS, MATHEMATICAL PATTERNS, AND I NEVER DID THAT BEFORE.

AND I NEVER DID THAT BEFORE.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS REALLY I THOUGHT THAT WAS REALLY APPROPRIATE FOR VERSAILLES.

APPROPRIATE FOR VERSAILLES.

>> [speaking French] >> [speaking French] >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I CAME >> ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I CAME TO REALIZE IN THIS LAST YEAR-- TO REALIZE IN THIS LAST YEAR-- I HAD SEVERAL MAJOR EXHIBITIONS.

I HAD SEVERAL MAJOR EXHIBITIONS.

I HAD A SHOW AT CHICAGO AT THE I HAD A SHOW AT CHICAGO AT THE MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY ART.

MUSEUM OF CONTEMPORARY ART.

I HAD THE SHOW ON THE ROOF OF I HAD THE SHOW ON THE ROOF OF THE METROPOLITAN IN NEW YORK, THE METROPOLITAN IN NEW YORK, EXHIBITION AT VERSAILLES, EXHIBITION AT VERSAILLES, AND THEN ALSO AT THE AND THEN ALSO AT THE IN BERLIN.

IN BERLIN.

I HAD A CHANCE TO SEE DIFFERENT I HAD A CHANCE TO SEE DIFFERENT BODIES OF WORK INTER-REACTING BODIES OF WORK INTER-REACTING WITH EACH OTHER.

WITH EACH OTHER.

THE IMAGES CAN CHANGE A LOT.

THE IMAGES CAN CHANGE A LOT.

THE REASON FOR MAKING SOMETHING THE REASON FOR MAKING SOMETHING CAN CHANGE.

CAN CHANGE.

SOME THINGS CAN BE MORE SOME THINGS CAN BE MORE CEREBRAL.

CEREBRAL.

OTHER ONES CAN BE MORE PHYSICAL.

OTHER ONES CAN BE MORE PHYSICAL.

BUT WHAT DOESN'T CHANGE IS THAT BUT WHAT DOESN'T CHANGE IS THAT REASON FOR MAKING THEM, REASON FOR MAKING THEM, THAT DESIRE TO BE IN THAT MOMENT THAT DESIRE TO BE IN THAT MOMENT OF THAT TIME WHEN YOU WANT TO OF THAT TIME WHEN YOU WANT TO MAKE SOMETHING, JUST DIVING MAKE SOMETHING, JUST DIVING IN, THAT KIND OF SENSE OF IN, THAT KIND OF SENSE OF ABANDONMENT OF KIND OF ANY DOUBT ABANDONMENT OF KIND OF ANY DOUBT AND JUST GOING FOR IT.

AND JUST GOING FOR IT.

AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT'S AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT'S IMPORTANT TO ME AS THE VIEWER IMPORTANT TO ME AS THE VIEWER IN THIS CASE.

IN THIS CASE.

I KNOW THAT OTHER VIEWERS CAN I KNOW THAT OTHER VIEWERS CAN LOOK AT IT, AND THEY CAN FEEL LOOK AT IT, AND THEY CAN FEEL SOMETHING, BUT I HOPE THAT THE SOMETHING, BUT I HOPE THAT THE MAIN CHARGE THAT THEY'RE GETTING MAIN CHARGE THAT THEY'RE GETTING IS THAT SENSE OF COMMITMENT OF IS THAT SENSE OF COMMITMENT OF MOVING FORWARD ON SOMETHING, MOVING FORWARD ON SOMETHING, THAT COMMITMENT OF GESTURE.

[soft electronic music] [soft electronic music] >> I ALWAYS WANTED A LOT >> I ALWAYS WANTED A LOT OF ATTENTION.

OF ATTENTION.

I HAD TAKEN BALLET LESSONS I HAD TAKEN BALLET LESSONS AS A CHILD.

AS A CHILD.

I WANTED TO BE A FAMOUS I WANTED TO BE A FAMOUS SWAN LAKE.

SWAN LAKE.

I WANTED EVERYONE LOOKING AT ME.

I WANTED EVERYONE LOOKING AT ME.

THEN I WANTED TO BE SPINNING, THEN I WANTED TO BE SPINNING, DOING SOMERSAULTS OFF THE DIVING DOING SOMERSAULTS OFF THE DIVING TOWER IN LOS ANGELES.

TOWER IN LOS ANGELES.

AND PEOPLE LOOK AT YOU WHEN YOU AND PEOPLE LOOK AT YOU WHEN YOU DO THAT.

DO THAT.

WHEN I TOLD MY MOTHER I WANTED WHEN I TOLD MY MOTHER I WANTED TO BE AN ARTIST, SHE SAID, TO BE AN ARTIST, SHE SAID, "YOU'LL STARVE IN A GARRET."

"YOU'LL STARVE IN A GARRET."

AND IN MY MIND, I THOUGHT, "YES, AND IN MY MIND, I THOUGHT, "YES, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED."

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WANTED."

IT TURNS OUT THAT IT WAS REALLY IT TURNS OUT THAT IT WAS REALLY A MISSION I WAS ON, AND IT WAS A MISSION I WAS ON, AND IT WAS JUST ABOUT THE ONLY THING JUST ABOUT THE ONLY THING I THOUGHT ABOUT: DOING ART.

WHILE I WAS AT SAN FRANCISCO WHILE I WAS AT SAN FRANCISCO STATE, STUDYING EDUCATION, STATE, STUDYING EDUCATION, I STARTED DOING CERAMICS.

I STARTED DOING CERAMICS.

SO I'M DOING MY ENGLISH, SO I'M DOING MY ENGLISH, MY LITERATURE, MY WRITING, MY LITERATURE, MY WRITING, AND THEN STARTED DOING POTTERY, AND THEN STARTED DOING POTTERY, AND I WAS VERY GOOD AT THAT.

AND I WAS VERY GOOD AT THAT.

IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA IN THE IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA IN THE EARLY '60s, BIG STUFF WAS EARLY '60s, BIG STUFF WAS HAPPENING IN CERAMICS.

HAPPENING IN CERAMICS.

SO I WENT UP TO BERKELEY TO SO I WENT UP TO BERKELEY TO GRADUATE SCHOOL, AND THEN WE'RE GRADUATE SCHOOL, AND THEN WE'RE DOING SORT OF AN ABSTRACT DOING SORT OF AN ABSTRACT EXPRESSIONIST CERAMIC SCULPTURE, EXPRESSIONIST CERAMIC SCULPTURE, HUGE SCALE, TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF HUGE SCALE, TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF CRAFT INVOLVED IN MAKING THESE CRAFT INVOLVED IN MAKING THESE THINGS AND FIRING THEM AND THINGS AND FIRING THEM AND GLAZING THEM.

GLAZING THEM.

THEN I GET TO KNOW BRUCE NAUMAN, THEN I GET TO KNOW BRUCE NAUMAN, WHO'S ALSO IN SCHOOL AT THE SAME WHO'S ALSO IN SCHOOL AT THE SAME TIME UP AT DAVIS, AND THE REST TIME UP AT DAVIS, AND THE REST IS HISTORY.

IS HISTORY.

THE TEACHERS IN THE SCHOOL HATED THE TEACHERS IN THE SCHOOL HATED THE SCULPTURE I MADE.

THE SCULPTURE I MADE.

THEY ALMOST KICKED ME OUT.

THEY ALMOST KICKED ME OUT.

SO THEN I WENT UP TO DAVIS TO SO THEN I WENT UP TO DAVIS TO WORK WITH WILLIAM WILEY, WHO WAS WORK WITH WILLIAM WILEY, WHO WAS BRUCE'S TEACHER, AND THEN THE BRUCE'S TEACHER, AND THEN THE THREE OF US SPENT TIME TOGETHER THREE OF US SPENT TIME TOGETHER TALKING ABOUT IDEAS, AND THAT'S TALKING ABOUT IDEAS, AND THAT'S A REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF MY A REALLY IMPORTANT PART OF MY LIFE.

LIFE.

IT WAS JUST WONDERFUL.

IN THE BEGINNING, THE ART IN THE BEGINNING, THE ART ENTERPRISE WAS DOING SOMETHING ENTERPRISE WAS DOING SOMETHING IMPORTANT, BEAUTIFUL, SORT OF IMPORTANT, BEAUTIFUL, SORT OF ALL BY YOURSELF.

ALL BY YOURSELF.

AS I GOT INTO IT AND MATURED, AS I GOT INTO IT AND MATURED, I SAW THAT THE MOST IMPORTANT I SAW THAT THE MOST IMPORTANT THING ABOUT DOING ARTWORK WAS THING ABOUT DOING ARTWORK WAS COMMUNICATING AND HAVING COMMUNICATING AND HAVING SOMETHING LIKE A CONVERSATION SOMETHING LIKE A CONVERSATION THROUGH THE WORK.

THROUGH THE WORK.

I THOUGHT ABOUT MAKING PIECES I THOUGHT ABOUT MAKING PIECES PARTLY FOR THEIR FORMAL VALUES PARTLY FOR THEIR FORMAL VALUES BUT ALSO VERY MUCH FOR THE KIND BUT ALSO VERY MUCH FOR THE KIND OF A RESPONSE I WOULD GET.

OF A RESPONSE I WOULD GET.

AND OFTEN, THE RESPONSE THAT AND OFTEN, THE RESPONSE THAT I WANTED WAS ONE OF ANTAGONISM.

I WANTED WAS ONE OF ANTAGONISM.

I WANTED TO CAUSE TROUBLE.

I WANTED TO CAUSE TROUBLE.

AND THAT CAUSED ME TROUBLE IN AND THAT CAUSED ME TROUBLE IN GRADUATE SCHOOL, BECAUSE BY THAT GRADUATE SCHOOL, BECAUSE BY THAT TIME, I HAD FIGURED OUT THAT TIME, I HAD FIGURED OUT THAT I WANTED TO BE ON THE EDGE, I WANTED TO BE ON THE EDGE, ORIGINAL, AND THAT MEANT GOING ORIGINAL, AND THAT MEANT GOING AGAINST THE STATUS QUO.

I DECIDED TO SWITCH MY PRACTICE I DECIDED TO SWITCH MY PRACTICE OVER TO BEING A PAINTER, AND OVER TO BEING A PAINTER, AND THEN I STARTED MAKING PAINTINGS, THEN I STARTED MAKING PAINTINGS, WHICH REALLY EVOLVED OUT OF THE WHICH REALLY EVOLVED OUT OF THE SCULPTURE.

SCULPTURE.

THE REASON THEY'RE PAINTED ON THE REASON THEY'RE PAINTED ON THE SIDE IS BECAUSE, FIRST, THE SIDE IS BECAUSE, FIRST, THEY'RE OBJECTS, AND THEN THEY'RE OBJECTS, AND THEN THEY'RE PICTURES OF SOMETHING.

LATER ON, IT WAS THE EARLY '90s, LATER ON, IT WAS THE EARLY '90s, AND THERE WAS A BIG RECESSION AND THERE WAS A BIG RECESSION ON, AND THE ART MAGAZINES WOULD ON, AND THE ART MAGAZINES WOULD HAVE ARTISTS WRITE PIECES, AND HAVE ARTISTS WRITE PIECES, AND WE DIDN'T GET PAID, AND SO I WE DIDN'T GET PAID, AND SO I STARTED WRITING ABOUT MY WORK, STARTED WRITING ABOUT MY WORK, AND WHEN PEOPLE WOULD SEE AN AND WHEN PEOPLE WOULD SEE AN IMAGE AND THEN READ THE WRITING, IMAGE AND THEN READ THE WRITING, THEY STARTED TO LIKE MY WORK.

THEY STARTED TO LIKE MY WORK.

THEN I STARTED DOING THE TITLES, THEN I STARTED DOING THE TITLES, WRITING PIECES FOR CATALOGS, WRITING PIECES FOR CATALOGS, WRITING PIECES FOR MAGAZINES, WRITING PIECES FOR MAGAZINES, AND THE WRITING PRACTICE AND THE AND THE WRITING PRACTICE AND THE ART PRACTICE ARE REALLY GOING ART PRACTICE ARE REALLY GOING HAND IN HAND NOW.

HAND IN HAND NOW.

EVERY PIECE OF ABSTRACT ART THAT EVERY PIECE OF ABSTRACT ART THAT I MAKE HAS A BACKSTORY, AND NOW I MAKE HAS A BACKSTORY, AND NOW I STARTED GIVING THEM THESE I STARTED GIVING THEM THESE FANCIFUL TITLES THAT RELATED TO FANCIFUL TITLES THAT RELATED TO SOMETHING THAT WAS GOING ON SOMETHING THAT WAS GOING ON WITH ME.

WITH ME.

SO THE TITLES ARE OFTEN LIKE SO THE TITLES ARE OFTEN LIKE A THREE-WORD POEM THAT IS A PART A THREE-WORD POEM THAT IS A PART OF THE PIECE.

OF THE PIECE.

I DO KEEP A DIARY, AND I CAN I DO KEEP A DIARY, AND I CAN LOOK BACK AND SEE WHAT WAS GOING LOOK BACK AND SEE WHAT WAS GOING ON, AND I LIKE TO DO THAT.

ON, AND I LIKE TO DO THAT.

AND ACTUALLY, REMEMBERING AND AND ACTUALLY, REMEMBERING AND THEN IN THE ART EXPRESSING THEN IN THE ART EXPRESSING EMOTION IS SOMETHING THAT I LIKE EMOTION IS SOMETHING THAT I LIKE TO DO.

TO DO.

THE TITLES HELP WITH THAT.

THE TITLES HELP WITH THAT.

THE COLOR HELPS.

THE COLOR HELPS.

AND THEN THE MUSIC METAPHOR IS AND THEN THE MUSIC METAPHOR IS SOMETHING I THINK ABOUT WHEN SOMETHING I THINK ABOUT WHEN I TRY TO PUT EMOTION INTO I TRY TO PUT EMOTION INTO ABSTRACT WORK.

ABSTRACT WORK.

SCALE DOES IT.

SCALE DOES IT.

THE RELATION OF PARTS TO THE THE RELATION OF PARTS TO THE WHOLE PIECE GIVE A FEELING OF WHOLE PIECE GIVE A FEELING OF FEELING--LOSS, LONELINESS, FEELING--LOSS, LONELINESS, CLAUSTROPHOBIA, AGORAPHOBIA, CLAUSTROPHOBIA, AGORAPHOBIA, FREE, FREEDOM, LIFTED SPIRIT FREE, FREEDOM, LIFTED SPIRIT TYPE OF FEELING, MELANCHOLY AND TYPE OF FEELING, MELANCHOLY AND JOY MAYBE IN THE SAME PIECE.

JOY MAYBE IN THE SAME PIECE.

AND THE TITLES HELP.

AND THE TITLES HELP.

VERY POST-MODERN HERE, MIXING MY VERY POST-MODERN HERE, MIXING MY DOUBLE GREENS.

DOUBLE GREENS.

WELL, ONE THING THAT REALLY WELL, ONE THING THAT REALLY INTERESTS ME IS--AND IT COMES INTERESTS ME IS--AND IT COMES OUT OF CHINESE AND JAPANESE OUT OF CHINESE AND JAPANESE PAINTING--IS WHERE YOU HAVE PAINTING--IS WHERE YOU HAVE A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF SPACE IN THE SAME PAINTING.

SPACE IN THE SAME PAINTING.

YOU HAVE A KIND OF DEEP SPACE, YOU HAVE A KIND OF DEEP SPACE, AND THEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING LIKE AND THEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING LIKE RIGHT UP ON THE SURFACE.

RIGHT UP ON THE SURFACE.

THIS PAINTING THAT WE WERE THIS PAINTING THAT WE WERE PAINTING ON TODAY HAS THAT.

PAINTING ON TODAY HAS THAT.

IT HAS THE CONVERGING LINES IT HAS THE CONVERGING LINES GOING OFF INTO SPACE AND THEN GOING OFF INTO SPACE AND THEN THE DRIP COMING DOWN THE FACE OF THE DRIP COMING DOWN THE FACE OF THE PAINTING, WHICH IS, LIKE, THE PAINTING, WHICH IS, LIKE, FLAT.

FLAT.

NOW THE FAKE DRIP.

NOW THE FAKE DRIP.

SO THAT THERE ARE TWO REALITIES SO THAT THERE ARE TWO REALITIES GOING ON IN THE SAME PAINTING.

ANOTHER THING THAT SPEAKS TO ANOTHER THING THAT SPEAKS TO THAT IS THESE PAINTINGS THAT ARE THAT IS THESE PAINTINGS THAT ARE ON THIS DOUBLE SQUARE SHAPED ON THIS DOUBLE SQUARE SHAPED CANVAS, AND OFTEN I PUT A DEEP CANVAS, AND OFTEN I PUT A DEEP SPACE KIND OF MOTIF ON A SHAPED SPACE KIND OF MOTIF ON A SHAPED CANVAS LIKE THAT, AND THEN THE CANVAS LIKE THAT, AND THEN THE TWO SQUARES THAT ARE THE EMPTY TWO SQUARES THAT ARE THE EMPTY SPACE MAKE THE WALL BE PART OF SPACE MAKE THE WALL BE PART OF THE PAINTING.

THE PAINTING.

OF COURSE, THEN YOU GET REAL OF COURSE, THEN YOU GET REAL SPACE AND THEN THE FAKE SPACE SPACE AND THEN THE FAKE SPACE AND THEN ALSO THE PHYSICAL AND THEN ALSO THE PHYSICAL OBJECT THAT'S THE CANVAS.

OBJECT THAT'S THE CANVAS.

SO THERE YOU'VE GOT THREE KINDS SO THERE YOU'VE GOT THREE KINDS OF SPACE IN THE SAME PAINTING.

OF SPACE IN THE SAME PAINTING.

THE SHAPED CANVAS COMES OUT OF THE SHAPED CANVAS COMES OUT OF MY OWN THINKING ABOUT GEOMETRY.

MY OWN THINKING ABOUT GEOMETRY.

LIKE, A LOT OF MY FIGURING OUT LIKE, A LOT OF MY FIGURING OUT WHAT TO MAKE TIME IS SPENT BY WHAT TO MAKE TIME IS SPENT BY SORT OF DOING SOME BASIC SORT OF DOING SOME BASIC COUNTING AND MEASURING AND COUNTING AND MEASURING AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW BIG TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW BIG DIFFERENT ELEMENTS OF A PIECE DIFFERENT ELEMENTS OF A PIECE SHOULD BE.

SHOULD BE.

THIS VANISHING POINT PAINTING THIS VANISHING POINT PAINTING THAT I'VE MADE, WHICH IS CALLED THAT I'VE MADE, WHICH IS CALLED I LOVE IT.

I LOVE IT.

IT'S ONE BLACK THING WITH TWO IT'S ONE BLACK THING WITH TWO LITTLE LINES ON IT.

LITTLE LINES ON IT.

I THINK THAT'S IT.

I THINK THAT'S IT.

SO LET'S SEE HOW THAT LOOKS.

SO LET'S SEE HOW THAT LOOKS.

I'VE PROBABLY BEEN THINKING I'VE PROBABLY BEEN THINKING ABOUT IT FOR FOUR MONTHS, TRYING ABOUT IT FOR FOUR MONTHS, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THAT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO GET THAT JUST RIGHT, AND I THINK I'VE GOT JUST RIGHT, AND I THINK I'VE GOT IT.

IT.

TWO-LANE BLACK TOP.

TWO-LANE BLACK TOP.

AND ONCE I GET THAT, I THINK AND ONCE I GET THAT, I THINK I'LL MAKE ABOUT 12 OF THOSE I'LL MAKE ABOUT 12 OF THOSE PAINTINGS.

PAINTINGS.

[laughs] [laughs] THESE SIMPLE IDEAS BECOME THESE SIMPLE IDEAS BECOME OBSESSIONS, ALMOST LIKE OBSESSIONS, ALMOST LIKE A MEDITATION.

A MEDITATION.

SIT DOWN HERE AND THINK ABOUT SIT DOWN HERE AND THINK ABOUT HOW FABULOUS THAT IS.

HOW FABULOUS THAT IS.

MAYBE HAVE TO DO A FEW LITTLE MAYBE HAVE TO DO A FEW LITTLE TOUCH-UPS ON IT, BUT THAT'S TOUCH-UPS ON IT, BUT THAT'S PRETTY MUCH IT.

I TAKE PICTURES AND THEY'RE JUST I TAKE PICTURES AND THEY'RE JUST IN THE BACK OF MY MIND.

IN THE BACK OF MY MIND.

I DON'T REALLY LOOK AT 'EM WHEN I DON'T REALLY LOOK AT 'EM WHEN I'M PAINTING.

I'M PAINTING.

NOW, LATELY I'VE BEEN MAKING NOW, LATELY I'VE BEEN MAKING SOME DIGITAL PRINTS, WHICH SOME DIGITAL PRINTS, WHICH I COMBINE WITH ETCHING.

I COMBINE WITH ETCHING.

AND YOU GET THE IDEA OF THE TWO AND YOU GET THE IDEA OF THE TWO KINDS OF WAY OF MAKING IMAGES.

KINDS OF WAY OF MAKING IMAGES.

AND I ALWAYS HAVE USED AND I ALWAYS HAVE USED A SLIDESHOW WHEN I GIVE ARTIST A SLIDESHOW WHEN I GIVE ARTIST TALKS.

TALKS.

THE SLIDESHOW INVOLVES USING THE SLIDESHOW INVOLVES USING A LOT OF PHOTOGRAPHIC IMAGERY A LOT OF PHOTOGRAPHIC IMAGERY WITH THE PAINTING IMAGES.

I'M A VERY HOLY LITTLE CATHOLIC I'M A VERY HOLY LITTLE CATHOLIC GIRL AT ABOUT SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT GIRL AT ABOUT SIX, SEVEN, EIGHT YEARS OLD, AND WHAT I WANTED TO YEARS OLD, AND WHAT I WANTED TO DO WAS TO BE A MARTYR.

DO WAS TO BE A MARTYR.

AND I WOULD BE IN ROME IN THE AND I WOULD BE IN ROME IN THE COLOSSEUM, AND THE LIONS WOULD COLOSSEUM, AND THE LIONS WOULD COME RUNNING OUT, AND THEY'D GET COME RUNNING OUT, AND THEY'D GET ME, AND THE AUDIENCE AT THE ME, AND THE AUDIENCE AT THE COLOSSEUM, THE BAD ROMANS THAT COLOSSEUM, THE BAD ROMANS THAT WERE KILLING THE CATHOLICS, WERE KILLING THE CATHOLICS, WOULD BE CHEERING, WOULD BE CHEERING, AND THEN I'D JUST GO FLYING UP AND THEN I'D JUST GO FLYING UP STRAIGHT TO HEAVEN.

STRAIGHT TO HEAVEN.

CRAZY AS THE MARTYRDOM FANTASY CRAZY AS THE MARTYRDOM FANTASY IS, IT JUST MADE SUCH A FABULOUS IS, IT JUST MADE SUCH A FABULOUS STORY, AND THE WAY YOU FLEW UP STORY, AND THE WAY YOU FLEW UP TO HEAVEN WAS SO FABULOUS.

TO HEAVEN WAS SO FABULOUS.

DIVING WAS NOT LIKE THAT.

DIVING WAS NOT LIKE THAT.

YOU DIDN'T FLY LIKE THAT WHEN YOU DIDN'T FLY LIKE THAT WHEN YOU JUMPED OFF A 15-FOOT TOWER.

YOU JUMPED OFF A 15-FOOT TOWER.

YOU WENT DOWN REALLY FAST.

YOU WENT DOWN REALLY FAST.

I LOVED THE WHOLE CATHOLIC I LOVED THE WHOLE CATHOLIC CULTURE AS A KID.

CULTURE AS A KID.

GROWING UP WITH THOSE KINDS OF GROWING UP WITH THOSE KINDS OF STORIES HAS CARRIED ON INTO MY STORIES HAS CARRIED ON INTO MY LIFE, THE WAY I THINK AND MAKE LIFE, THE WAY I THINK AND MAKE UP THINGS NOW.

UP THINGS NOW.

AND THE FACT THAT AN OBJECT OF AND THE FACT THAT AN OBJECT OF ART FEELS LIKE AN ICON IN THE ART FEELS LIKE AN ICON IN THE WAY ICONS WERE WHEN I WAS LITTLE WAY ICONS WERE WHEN I WAS LITTLE IS REALLY A TRUE THING.

IS REALLY A TRUE THING.

EACH THING ALMOST WORKS AS AN EACH THING ALMOST WORKS AS AN ICON OR MAYBE AN IDEOGRAPH TO ICON OR MAYBE AN IDEOGRAPH TO SAY ONE IDEA WHICH HAS RESONANCE SAY ONE IDEA WHICH HAS RESONANCE AND MAKES YOU HAVE THOUGHTS AND MAKES YOU HAVE THOUGHTS ABOUT OTHER IDEAS.

ABOUT OTHER IDEAS.

AND EVEN TALKING ABOUT, LIKE, AND EVEN TALKING ABOUT, LIKE, SAY, THE DRIP AS AN ICON.

SAY, THE DRIP AS AN ICON.

COLOR CAN BE THOUGHT ABOUT IN AN COLOR CAN BE THOUGHT ABOUT IN AN ICONOGRAPHIC WAY.

ICONOGRAPHIC WAY.

I DID DO A PAINTING BASED ON THE I DID DO A PAINTING BASED ON THE MARTYRDOM OF ST. SEBASTIAN.

MARTYRDOM OF ST. SEBASTIAN.

ROSEBUD.

I HAVE A TREMENDOUS LOVE FOR THE I HAVE A TREMENDOUS LOVE FOR THE SPIRITUAL PART OF LIFE, AND IT'S SPIRITUAL PART OF LIFE, AND IT'S MORE ECUMENICAL NOW.

MORE ECUMENICAL NOW.

IT'S NOT SO SPECIFIC.

MY SPIRITUAL LIFE IS VERY MY SPIRITUAL LIFE IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ME.

IMPORTANT TO ME.

AND I THINK THE ARTWORKS AND I THINK THE ARTWORKS ARE ICONS.

ARE ICONS.

AND WHAT'S GREAT ABOUT AN AND WHAT'S GREAT ABOUT AN ARTWORK IS THAT YOU CAN SIT ARTWORK IS THAT YOU CAN SIT THERE AND LOOK AT IT AND THERE AND LOOK AT IT AND MEDITATE AND THINK AND MAKE IT MEDITATE AND THINK AND MAKE IT AND UNMAKE IT AND REMAKE IT AND UNMAKE IT AND REMAKE IT ONE'S OWN OR ANYONE ELSE'S.

ONE'S OWN OR ANYONE ELSE'S.

THIS IS THE INVISIBLE PAINTING, THIS IS THE INVISIBLE PAINTING, AND I'M HOPING THAT WHEN IT AND I'M HOPING THAT WHEN IT HANGS ON THE WALL, BEING JUST HANGS ON THE WALL, BEING JUST THESE TWO SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT THESE TWO SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT COLORS OF WHITE, THAT IT WILL COLORS OF WHITE, THAT IT WILL LOOK LIKE A BEAUTIFUL, MAGICAL LOOK LIKE A BEAUTIFUL, MAGICAL HOLE IN THE WALL.

HOLE IN THE WALL.

VERY BAD TO TALK ABOUT IT BEFORE VERY BAD TO TALK ABOUT IT BEFORE IT'S FINISHED.

IT'S FINISHED.

I GUESS MOSTLY THE STORIES AND I GUESS MOSTLY THE STORIES AND THE IMAGES IS PROBABLY THE MAIN THE IMAGES IS PROBABLY THE MAIN WAY THAT THIS KIND OF THINKING WAY THAT THIS KIND OF THINKING ABOUT WORK RELATES TO ABOUT WORK RELATES TO MY CHILDHOOD.

MY CHILDHOOD.

AN ARTWORK CAN TRANSPORT AN ARTWORK CAN TRANSPORT A PERSON IN A SOULFUL, RICH WAY A PERSON IN A SOULFUL, RICH WAY WITHOUT HAVING ANY FEAR OF WITHOUT HAVING ANY FEAR OF PUNISHMENT OR HELL OR SIN OR ANY PUNISHMENT OR HELL OR SIN OR ANY OF THOSE OTHER GOOD THINGS.

OF THOSE OTHER GOOD THINGS.

I AM GONNA LEAVE THAT I AM GONNA LEAVE THAT POST-MODERN DRIP THERE.

[soft electronic music] [soft electronic music] >> WE'RE IN EAST GERMANY, >> WE'RE IN EAST GERMANY, IN STRALSUND, ALMOST TO THE IN STRALSUND, ALMOST TO THE BORDER TO POLAND, FORMER GDR.

BORDER TO POLAND, FORMER GDR.

I'M TRYING TO RECAPTURE A VIEW I'M TRYING TO RECAPTURE A VIEW OF AN OLD POSTCARD OF THE CITY OF AN OLD POSTCARD OF THE CITY OF STRALSUND.

OF STRALSUND.

I TRY TO FIND IMAGES THAT I FIND I TRY TO FIND IMAGES THAT I FIND INTERESTING, AND THEN I WORK MY INTERESTING, AND THEN I WORK MY WAY UP FROM THOSE IMAGES.

WAY UP FROM THOSE IMAGES.

THE ACTUAL IMAGE THAT I GET THE ACTUAL IMAGE THAT I GET FROM THE LAB THE NEXT DAY, FROM THE LAB THE NEXT DAY, THAT'S ONLY HALF OF THE PROCESS.

THAT'S ONLY HALF OF THE PROCESS.

I WORK ON THE IMAGES A LOT I WORK ON THE IMAGES A LOT AFTERWARDS.

AFTERWARDS.

I DRAW IN THEM.

I DRAW IN THEM.

I ENHANCE THEM, AND I CONSTRUCT I ENHANCE THEM, AND I CONSTRUCT THEM TO A DEGREE THAT'S NOT THEM TO A DEGREE THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY LINKED TO ACTUALITY NECESSARILY LINKED TO ACTUALITY ANYMORE.

ANYMORE.

IT'S MORE LIKE AN IDEALIZED IT'S MORE LIKE AN IDEALIZED IMAGE, LIKE MAYBE THE WAY IMAGE, LIKE MAYBE THE WAY POSTCARDS USED TO WORK.

POSTCARDS USED TO WORK.

SOMETIMES I WORK ON THE IMAGES SOMETIMES I WORK ON THE IMAGES JUST A WEEK.

JUST A WEEK.

SOMETIMES IT TAKES MONTHS.

I'M NOT SURE HOW IT'S GONNA WORK I'M NOT SURE HOW IT'S GONNA WORK OUT TODAY, BUT THE VIEW IS GOOD.

OUT TODAY, BUT THE VIEW IS GOOD.

THERE'S NO FOG, AND IT'S ALMOST THERE'S NO FOG, AND IT'S ALMOST AS I EXPECTED IT.

THAT'S THE REFERENCE.

THAT'S THE REFERENCE.

IT'S AN OLD PHOTOGRAPH OF IT'S AN OLD PHOTOGRAPH OF STRALSUND BACK IN GDR TIMES, STRALSUND BACK IN GDR TIMES, CIRCA 1970.

CIRCA 1970.

I LIKE IT BECAUSE IT'S VERY I LIKE IT BECAUSE IT'S VERY SPARSELY LIT.

SPARSELY LIT.

IT'S VERY MINIMAL.

IT'S VERY MINIMAL.

YOU STILL HAVE THOSE GOTHIC YOU STILL HAVE THOSE GOTHIC CATHEDRALS IN THE BACKGROUND, CATHEDRALS IN THE BACKGROUND, BUT THEN IN THE FRONT YOU HAVE BUT THEN IN THE FRONT YOU HAVE FUNCTIONAL BUILDINGS, BASIC FUNCTIONAL BUILDINGS, BASIC SHAPES.

SHAPES.

AND THEN IT'S VERY BASIC.

AND THEN IT'S VERY BASIC.

IMAGE CUTS IN HALF.

IMAGE CUTS IN HALF.

YOU HAVE SKY, AND THEN YOU HAVE YOU HAVE SKY, AND THEN YOU HAVE THIS FOREGROUND.

THIS FOREGROUND.

I LIKE THE WAY IT BECOMES I LIKE THE WAY IT BECOMES VERY ABSTRACT.

VERY ABSTRACT.

FINAL IMAGE MIGHT LOOK MUCH FINAL IMAGE MIGHT LOOK MUCH DIFFERENT FROM THIS, BUT I KIND DIFFERENT FROM THIS, BUT I KIND OF LIKE THE BASIC COMPOSITION OF LIKE THE BASIC COMPOSITION OF IT.

OF IT.

THERE'S MAYBE, LIKE, 15 LIGHT THERE'S MAYBE, LIKE, 15 LIGHT SOURCES, AND TODAY, IT'S NOT THE SOURCES, AND TODAY, IT'S NOT THE CASE ANYMORE.

CASE ANYMORE.

IT'S ACTUALLY OVERLIT BECAUSE IT'S ACTUALLY OVERLIT BECAUSE IT'S UNESCO WORLD HERITAGE AND IT'S UNESCO WORLD HERITAGE AND YOU CAN ALREADY SEE THAT ALL THE YOU CAN ALREADY SEE THAT ALL THE SPOTS ARE ON THE DOMES.

SPOTS ARE ON THE DOMES.

SOME OF THE WAREHOUSES HAVE BEEN SOME OF THE WAREHOUSES HAVE BEEN TORN DOWN, AND THEY ALSO TORN DOWN, AND THEY ALSO CONSTRUCTED THIS NEW GEHRY TYPE CONSTRUCTED THIS NEW GEHRY TYPE AQUARIUM OVER THERE, THAT WHITE AQUARIUM OVER THERE, THAT WHITE SPOT.

SPOT.

SO I WILL DEFINITELY TAKE THAT SO I WILL DEFINITELY TAKE THAT OUT BECAUSE THAT'S TOO MODERN, OUT BECAUSE THAT'S TOO MODERN, TOO WHITE.

I SAW THIS PLACE BY ACCIDENT, I SAW THIS PLACE BY ACCIDENT, BECAUSE IT'S A MURAL IN BECAUSE IT'S A MURAL IN A STATION OF STRALSUND IN EAST A STATION OF STRALSUND IN EAST GERMANY.

GERMANY.

IT HAD A VERY NOSTALGIC GERMAN IT HAD A VERY NOSTALGIC GERMAN FEELING ABOUT AN OLD-TIME FEELING ABOUT AN OLD-TIME ILLUSTRATION OF RUEGEN.

ILLUSTRATION OF RUEGEN.

IT IS A VERY IMPRECISE IMAGE IT IS A VERY IMPRECISE IMAGE OPEN TO YOUR IMAGINATION.

OPEN TO YOUR IMAGINATION.

IT DOESN'T GIVE AWAY ALL THE IT DOESN'T GIVE AWAY ALL THE FACTS.

FACTS.

MAPS JUST GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF MAPS JUST GIVE YOU AN IDEA OF A PLACE.

A PLACE.

THEY'RE LIKE AN ILLUSTRATION, THEY'RE LIKE AN ILLUSTRATION, BUT THEY'RE CLEARLY THE OPPOSITE BUT THEY'RE CLEARLY THE OPPOSITE OF A PRECISE PHOTOGRAPH.

THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE THIS IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE MURAL IN STRALSUND.

MURAL IN STRALSUND.

I TOOK OUT THE NAMES AND I TOOK OUT THE NAMES AND DESCRIPTIONS AND TURNED IT INTO DESCRIPTIONS AND TURNED IT INTO AN EVEN MORE NONDESCRIPT IMAGE.

IT WAS PAINTED IN '36, BUT TO IT WAS PAINTED IN '36, BUT TO ME, IT STANDS MORE FOR THE EAST ME, IT STANDS MORE FOR THE EAST GERMAN SOCIAL REALIST ERA AND GERMAN SOCIAL REALIST ERA AND THE GLORIFICATION OF THE FARMER THE GLORIFICATION OF THE FARMER STATE.

STATE.

I TOOK A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE REAL I TOOK A PHOTOGRAPH OF THE REAL ISLAND WHEN I WAS THERE, AND IT ISLAND WHEN I WAS THERE, AND IT DIDN'T WORK OUT TO ME.

DIDN'T WORK OUT TO ME.

IT WAS TOO FLAT, AND WE COULDN'T IT WAS TOO FLAT, AND WE COULDN'T GET HIGH UP ENOUGH, AND, GET HIGH UP ENOUGH, AND, OF COURSE, IT LOOKS VERY OF COURSE, IT LOOKS VERY DIFFERENT TO THE ILLUSTRATION, DIFFERENT TO THE ILLUSTRATION, AND SO I THOUGHT THE AND SO I THOUGHT THE ILLUSTRATION IS JUST ANOTHER ILLUSTRATION IS JUST ANOTHER LEVEL OF ABSTRACTING IT.

LEVEL OF ABSTRACTING IT.

IT LIFTS YOU TO ANOTHER LAYER IT LIFTS YOU TO ANOTHER LAYER THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY LINKED THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY LINKED TO REALISM, AND IT OPENS UP YOUR TO REALISM, AND IT OPENS UP YOUR OWN WORLD OR YOUR OWN OWN WORLD OR YOUR OWN MYTHMAKING.

IT WORKS FINE WITH AN ABSTRACT IT WORKS FINE WITH AN ABSTRACT IMAGE LIKE JUNE LAKE, IMAGE LIKE JUNE LAKE, FOR EXAMPLE.

FOR EXAMPLE.

AND AND IT SHOWS A SKI RESORT IN THE IT SHOWS A SKI RESORT IN THE SIERRAS.

SIERRAS.

WE WERE SKIING, AND I SAW THIS WE WERE SKIING, AND I SAW THIS IMAGE AT THE DINER, AND I WAS IMAGE AT THE DINER, AND I WAS INSTANTLY STRUCK BY IT FOR ITS INSTANTLY STRUCK BY IT FOR ITS ABSTRACT QUALITIES, BECAUSE IT ABSTRACT QUALITIES, BECAUSE IT COULD BE AN ABSTRACT SCRIBBLE, COULD BE AN ABSTRACT SCRIBBLE, BUT IT COULD ALSO BE A PIECE OF BUT IT COULD ALSO BE A PIECE OF LAND ART, MUCH MORE CHAOTIC THAN LAND ART, MUCH MORE CHAOTIC THAN JUST A PURE LINE.

JUST A PURE LINE.

MOST OF THE SKI RESORTS, AT MOST OF THE SKI RESORTS, AT LEAST IN THE SIERRAS, ARE BELOW LEAST IN THE SIERRAS, ARE BELOW TREE LINE, SO THEY HAVE TO CUT TREE LINE, SO THEY HAVE TO CUT OUT THE SLOPES AND BASICALLY OUT THE SLOPES AND BASICALLY CREATE THIS SCRIBBLE.

CREATE THIS SCRIBBLE.

AND THIS WAS ALSO ONE OF THE AND THIS WAS ALSO ONE OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT I COULDN'T TAKE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT I COULDN'T TAKE MYSELF, BECAUSE IT'S CLEARLY AN MYSELF, BECAUSE IT'S CLEARLY AN AERIAL PHOTOGRAPH.

AERIAL PHOTOGRAPH.

STILL, THOUGH, A VERY ABSTRACT-- STILL, THOUGH, A VERY ABSTRACT-- AND IT'S VERY PRECISE LIKE AND IT'S VERY PRECISE LIKE A SATELLITE PHOTOGRAPH.

A SATELLITE PHOTOGRAPH.

ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU HAVE ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU HAVE RUEGEN, WHICH IS REALLY JUST RUEGEN, WHICH IS REALLY JUST LIKE VERY FEW BRUSHSTROKES AND LIKE VERY FEW BRUSHSTROKES AND VERY SIMPLE.

VERY SIMPLE.

JUST GIVES YOU AN ILLUSION OR AN JUST GIVES YOU AN ILLUSION OR AN IDEA OF HOW IT COULD LOOK.

IDEA OF HOW IT COULD LOOK.

SO IT'S VERY IMPRECISE.

SO IT'S VERY IMPRECISE.

THIS IS A PASS IN ITALY NEXT TO THIS IS A PASS IN ITALY NEXT TO THE SWISS BORDER.

THE SWISS BORDER.

I'VE BEEN TO THAT PASS MANY I'VE BEEN TO THAT PASS MANY TIMES AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, TIMES AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN, AT ONE POINT, I SAW POSTCARDS OF AT ONE POINT, I SAW POSTCARDS OF THAT PASS, AND I WAS JUST STRUCK THAT PASS, AND I WAS JUST STRUCK BY THE SCRIBBLE OF THE BY THE SCRIBBLE OF THE SERPENTINES.

SERPENTINES.

IT'S REALLY JUST LIKE IT'S REALLY JUST LIKE AN ABSTRACT GESTURE.

AN ABSTRACT GESTURE.

THE ITALIAN ENGINEERS MADE THE ITALIAN ENGINEERS MADE A SCRIBBLE FOR ME IN THE IMAGE.

A SCRIBBLE FOR ME IN THE IMAGE.

I BOUGHT ALL THE POSTCARDS THEY I BOUGHT ALL THE POSTCARDS THEY HAD TO DETERMINE IF A VANTAGE HAD TO DETERMINE IF A VANTAGE POINT IS VALID ENOUGH.

POINT IS VALID ENOUGH.

THE MORE IMAGES THAT ARE TAKEN THE MORE IMAGES THAT ARE TAKEN FROM ONE SPOT, THE MORE REASON FROM ONE SPOT, THE MORE REASON FOR ME TO TAKE ANOTHER FOR ME TO TAKE ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH, IN A WAY.

PHOTOGRAPH, IN A WAY.

THOSE ARE SOME OF THE POSTCARDS.

THOSE ARE SOME OF THE POSTCARDS.

YOU CAN ALWAYS SEE YOU CAN ALWAYS SEE THE SERPENTINES.

THE SERPENTINES.

THIS ONE, IT'S PRETTY CLOSE TO THIS ONE, IT'S PRETTY CLOSE TO WHERE I WAS.

WHERE I WAS.

THAT'S A VERY VINTAGE ONE.

THAT'S A VERY VINTAGE ONE.

THEY WOULD ALSO, JUST TO MAKE IT THEY WOULD ALSO, JUST TO MAKE IT MORE DRAMATIC, PAINT IN WHITE MORE DRAMATIC, PAINT IN WHITE SNOW, WHICH I ALSO DID ON THIS SNOW, WHICH I ALSO DID ON THIS ONE, BECAUSE THERE WASN'T ENOUGH ONE, BECAUSE THERE WASN'T ENOUGH SNOW, AND I WANT TO HAVE THOSE SNOW, AND I WANT TO HAVE THOSE FIELDS OF WHITE SNOW.

FIELDS OF WHITE SNOW.

SO I JUST DREW THEM IN MYSELF.

SO I JUST DREW THEM IN MYSELF.

AS A REFERENCE TO THE POSTCARDS, AS A REFERENCE TO THE POSTCARDS, I THOUGHT, "I'LL TRY TO USE I THOUGHT, "I'LL TRY TO USE A PROCESS THAT IS MAYBE LINKED A PROCESS THAT IS MAYBE LINKED TO, LIKE, OFFSET PRINTING AND-- TO, LIKE, OFFSET PRINTING AND-- AND EVEN OLD COLOR PHOTOGRAPHY."

AND EVEN OLD COLOR PHOTOGRAPHY."

IT'S CALLED TRICOLOR IT'S CALLED TRICOLOR PHOTOGRAPHY.

PHOTOGRAPHY.

TAKE THREE BLACK AND WHITE TAKE THREE BLACK AND WHITE EXPOSURES WITH THREE DIFFERENT EXPOSURES WITH THREE DIFFERENT FILTERS: RED, BLUE, AND GREEN.

FILTERS: RED, BLUE, AND GREEN.

AND THEN YOU SANDWICH THOSE AND THEN YOU SANDWICH THOSE THREE NEGATIVES TOGETHER.

THREE NEGATIVES TOGETHER.

THE END RESULT IS A COLOR THE END RESULT IS A COLOR PHOTOGRAPH.

PHOTOGRAPH.

BUT SINCE YOU'RE SANDWICHING BUT SINCE YOU'RE SANDWICHING THREE PHOTOGRAPHS TOGETHER, THEY THREE PHOTOGRAPHS TOGETHER, THEY DON'T REGISTER EVENLY.

DON'T REGISTER EVENLY.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF SO THERE'S A LOT OF IRREGULARITIES, AND THEN YOU IRREGULARITIES, AND THEN YOU ALSO HAVE THE CLOUDS OR ANYTHING ALSO HAVE THE CLOUDS OR ANYTHING THAT MOVES WILL CREATE THAT MOVES WILL CREATE A DIFFERENT COLOR, A DIFFERENT COLOR, 'CAUSE THERE'S TIME BETWEEN 'CAUSE THERE'S TIME BETWEEN EXPOSURES.

EXPOSURES.

SO THIS CLOUD WAS ONLY RECORDED SO THIS CLOUD WAS ONLY RECORDED BY ONE EXPOSURE.

BY ONE EXPOSURE.

THAT'S WHY IT TURNS PINK, THAT'S WHY IT TURNS PINK, FOR EXAMPLE.

FOR EXAMPLE.

OR ONE CLOUD WAS ONLY RECORDED OR ONE CLOUD WAS ONLY RECORDED BY ANOTHER EXPOSURE.

BY ANOTHER EXPOSURE.

THAT'S WHY IT TURNS YELLOW.

THAT'S WHY IT TURNS YELLOW.

PHOTOGRAPHY USED TO BE LIKE PHOTOGRAPHY USED TO BE LIKE ALCHEMY BACK IN THE ALCHEMY BACK IN THE 19TH CENTURY.

19TH CENTURY.

IT WAS A MEDIUM OF THE FEW, IT WAS A MEDIUM OF THE FEW, AND NOW IT HAS TURNED INTO AND NOW IT HAS TURNED INTO A MASS MEDIUM.

A MASS MEDIUM.

MAYBE IT'S REACTIONARY TO TURN MAYBE IT'S REACTIONARY TO TURN BACKWARDS AND TO TRY TO BACKWARDS AND TO TRY TO ESTABLISH ARTISTRY AGAIN, BUT ESTABLISH ARTISTRY AGAIN, BUT IT'S ALSO THE MOST INTERESTING IT'S ALSO THE MOST INTERESTING PART OF THE PROCESS AND NOT JUST PART OF THE PROCESS AND NOT JUST LIKE THE BLACK BOX, LIKE THE BLACK BOX, LIKE A DIGITAL CAMERA.

LIKE A DIGITAL CAMERA.

I NEED TO TREAT EACH PHOTO I NEED TO TREAT EACH PHOTO INDIVIDUALLY TO DETERMINE THE INDIVIDUALLY TO DETERMINE THE RIGHT SIZE OR SCALE FOR IT.

RIGHT SIZE OR SCALE FOR IT.

SOME OF THE WORKS MIGHT BE HUGE SOME OF THE WORKS MIGHT BE HUGE VISTAS, SO I HANG 'EM LOW SO YOU VISTAS, SO I HANG 'EM LOW SO YOU CAN ACTUALLY LOOK DOWNWARDS TO CAN ACTUALLY LOOK DOWNWARDS TO IT, AND IT MIGHT WORK AS A MAP.

IT, AND IT MIGHT WORK AS A MAP.

OR YOU CAN INSPECT EVERY DETAIL.

OR YOU CAN INSPECT EVERY DETAIL.

IT NEEDS TO BE BIG ENOUGH THAT IT NEEDS TO BE BIG ENOUGH THAT YOU CAN ACTUALLY GET LOST IN ONE YOU CAN ACTUALLY GET LOST IN ONE CORNER WITHOUT GETTING CORNER WITHOUT GETTING DISTRACTED BY THE OTHER CORNER.

DISTRACTED BY THE OTHER CORNER.

I DON'T DO SERIAL WORK.

I DON'T DO SERIAL WORK.

I THINK EVERY PIECE NEEDS ITS I THINK EVERY PIECE NEEDS ITS OWN PRESENTATION AND SCALE.

OWN PRESENTATION AND SCALE.

I TURNED THE FINISHED PHOTOGRAPH I TURNED THE FINISHED PHOTOGRAPH ALMOST BACK INTO A SCRIBBLE ALMOST BACK INTO A SCRIBBLE AGAIN.

AGAIN.

USUALLY, A PHOTOGRAPH IS VERY USUALLY, A PHOTOGRAPH IS VERY PRECISE, VERY RIGOROUS, AND IT'S PRECISE, VERY RIGOROUS, AND IT'S AN END PRODUCT.

AN END PRODUCT.

AND I LIKE TO USE THE END AND I LIKE TO USE THE END PRODUCT AND TURN IT INTO PRODUCT AND TURN IT INTO AN UNFINISHED STATE AGAIN.

AN UNFINISHED STATE AGAIN.

I THINK IT'S FINE TO COMBINE I THINK IT'S FINE TO COMBINE PHOTOGRAPHY AND DRAWING, FOR PHOTOGRAPHY AND DRAWING, FOR EXAMPLE, OR ALTER PHOTOGRAPHS EXAMPLE, OR ALTER PHOTOGRAPHS AND BRING IN FICTIONAL ELEMENTS, AND BRING IN FICTIONAL ELEMENTS, JUST NOT BE SATISFIED WITH JUST NOT BE SATISFIED WITH PHOTOGRAPHY AS A FINISHED IMAGE PHOTOGRAPHY AS A FINISHED IMAGE OR A SUPER REALISTIC MEDIUM.

OR A SUPER REALISTIC MEDIUM.

I LIKE THE IDEA OF USING THE I LIKE THE IDEA OF USING THE COMPUTER TO ACTUALLY BRING IN COMPUTER TO ACTUALLY BRING IN IMPERFECTIONS OR TO TURN IMPERFECTIONS OR TO TURN A PHOTOGRAPH, A FINISHED IMAGE A PHOTOGRAPH, A FINISHED IMAGE INTO A MORE OPEN-ENDED IMAGE SO INTO A MORE OPEN-ENDED IMAGE SO THAT IT'S NOT TOO PRECISE OR SO THAT IT'S NOT TOO PRECISE OR SO OVERDETERMINED.

OVERDETERMINED.

THE COMPUTER HAS OPENED UP MUCH THE COMPUTER HAS OPENED UP MUCH MORE POSSIBILITIES SO YOU CAN MORE POSSIBILITIES SO YOU CAN REALLY GO INTO THE PHOTOGRAPH REALLY GO INTO THE PHOTOGRAPH TODAY, WHICH WAS HARD TO DO IN TODAY, WHICH WAS HARD TO DO IN THE EARLY 20TH CENTURY.

THE REAL BEGINNING WAS WHEN THE REAL BEGINNING WAS WHEN I CAME TO CALIFORNIA, I CAME TO CALIFORNIA, BECAUSE I DIDN'T COME HERE FOR BECAUSE I DIDN'T COME HERE FOR ITS SCENIC BEAUTY.

ITS SCENIC BEAUTY.

I CAME HERE FOR THE ARTISTS THAT I CAME HERE FOR THE ARTISTS THAT WERE TEACHING AT UCLA, AND I WERE TEACHING AT UCLA, AND I THOUGHT THE ART THEY WERE DOING THOUGHT THE ART THEY WERE DOING WAS EXACTLY THE ART THAT WAS EXACTLY THE ART THAT I LIKED.

I LIKED.

I'M ALWAYS KIND OF CRITICAL AND I'M ALWAYS KIND OF CRITICAL AND THINK THE WORK IS NOT GOOD THINK THE WORK IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH, AND YOU ARE ALWAYS JUST ENOUGH, AND YOU ARE ALWAYS JUST THIS POOR PHOTOGRAPHER WHOSE ART THIS POOR PHOTOGRAPHER WHOSE ART IS USUALLY CONSIDERED LIKE IS USUALLY CONSIDERED LIKE A SIDE PRODUCT.

A SIDE PRODUCT.

IT'S NOT LIKE THE REAL ART.

IT'S NOT LIKE THE REAL ART.

IT'S MORE SOME SORT OF INFERIOR IT'S MORE SOME SORT OF INFERIOR ART.

ART.

AT LEAST THAT'S HOW IT IS AT LEAST THAT'S HOW IT IS IN GERMANY.

IN GERMANY.

AND MAYBE IN THE U.S., AND MAYBE IN THE U.S., PHOTOGRAPHY'S DEFINITELY MORE PHOTOGRAPHY'S DEFINITELY MORE ESTABLISHED, BECAUSE PHOTOGRAPHY ESTABLISHED, BECAUSE PHOTOGRAPHY GREW TOGETHER WITH THE DISCOVERY GREW TOGETHER WITH THE DISCOVERY OF THE AMERICAN WEST.

THERE'S A PHOTOGRAPH BY WATKINS THERE'S A PHOTOGRAPH BY WATKINS THE BEST GENERAL THE BEST GENERAL AND I THOUGHT THIS WAS AND I THOUGHT THIS WAS PERFECT TO TAKE A PHOTOGRAPH PERFECT TO TAKE A PHOTOGRAPH FROM GLACIER POINT IN YOSEMITE, FROM GLACIER POINT IN YOSEMITE, WHICH IS THE MOST POPULAR SPOT WHICH IS THE MOST POPULAR SPOT TOWARDS HALF DOME, WHICH IS THE TOWARDS HALF DOME, WHICH IS THE MOST PHOTOGRAPHED MOUNTAIN MOST PHOTOGRAPHED MOUNTAIN PROBABLY IN AMERICA, AND NAME IT PROBABLY IN AMERICA, AND NAME IT THE BEST GENERAL VIEW.

THE BEST GENERAL VIEW.

I LIKE THE STAGE QUALITY.

I LIKE THE STAGE QUALITY.

IT WASN'T A PERFECT DAY WHEN IT WASN'T A PERFECT DAY WHEN I TOOK THE PHOTOGRAPH.

I TOOK THE PHOTOGRAPH.

IT WAS OVERCAST A LITTLE BIT, IT WAS OVERCAST A LITTLE BIT, AND I DIDN'T MIND.

AND I DIDN'T MIND.

IT'S A STARTING POINT.

IT'S A STARTING POINT.

I DREW IN THE ENTIRE BACKGROUND I DREW IN THE ENTIRE BACKGROUND WITH THE BLUE SKY AND THE WITH THE BLUE SKY AND THE CLOUDS, AND I BROUGHT IN THOSE CLOUDS, AND I BROUGHT IN THOSE BUSHES TO BRING IN SOME BUSHES TO BRING IN SOME FOREGROUND-BACKGROUND SPACE.

FOREGROUND-BACKGROUND SPACE.

SO IN THE END, EXCEPT FOR HALF SO IN THE END, EXCEPT FOR HALF DOME, THE IMAGE IS NOT THE WAY DOME, THE IMAGE IS NOT THE WAY IT LOOKED WHEN I TOOK THE IT LOOKED WHEN I TOOK THE PICTURE.

THAT'S AN IMAGE NEAR SANTA THAT'S AN IMAGE NEAR SANTA CLARITA ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF CLARITA ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF LOS ANGELES.

LOS ANGELES.

IT SHOWS THE REMAINS OF THE IT SHOWS THE REMAINS OF THE ST. FRANCIS DAM.

ST. FRANCIS DAM.

ST. FRANCIS DAM WAS A FAILURE.

ST. FRANCIS DAM WAS A FAILURE.

JUST BY RESEARCHING, WE LEARN JUST BY RESEARCHING, WE LEARN ABOUT MULHOLLAND AND THE FACT ABOUT MULHOLLAND AND THE FACT THAT HE RESIGNED AFTER THE THAT HE RESIGNED AFTER THE FAILURE OF THE DAM.

FAILURE OF THE DAM.

FAILURE USUALLY IS THE SIDE THAT FAILURE USUALLY IS THE SIDE THAT NOBODY WANTS TO MENTION, NOBODY NOBODY WANTS TO MENTION, NOBODY WANTS TO POINT OUT, AND THAT'S WANTS TO POINT OUT, AND THAT'S THE HIDDEN SIDE OR THE THE HIDDEN SIDE OR THE SUBCONTEXT IN A WAY.

SUBCONTEXT IN A WAY.

WE'RE STANDING ON THE DAM.

WE'RE STANDING ON THE DAM.

THIS IS THE VISTA TOWARDS THE THIS IS THE VISTA TOWARDS THE OLD FORMER LAKE THAT WAS OLD FORMER LAKE THAT WAS DRAINED WHEN THE DAM COLLAPSED.

DRAINED WHEN THE DAM COLLAPSED.

TODAY IT'S BACK TO ITS OLD TODAY IT'S BACK TO ITS OLD NATURE, AND I'M JUST RECORDING NATURE, AND I'M JUST RECORDING BASICALLY, LIKE, A STRAIGHT BASICALLY, LIKE, A STRAIGHT PHOTOGRAPH OF THE FORMER LAKE OR PHOTOGRAPH OF THE FORMER LAKE OR THE VALLEY.

THE VALLEY.

I'M USING THE PHOTOGRAPH AS I'M USING THE PHOTOGRAPH AS A SCRIPT.

A SCRIPT.

I WAS MORE INTERESTED IN THE I WAS MORE INTERESTED IN THE ABSTRACT QUALITIES ABSTRACT QUALITIES WHEN I WAS RESEARCHING THE DAM, WHEN I WAS RESEARCHING THE DAM, AND I LOOKED AT DOCUMENTS FROM AND I LOOKED AT DOCUMENTS FROM THE DAY IT COLLAPSED IN '29.

THE DAY IT COLLAPSED IN '29.

THE PICTURE WAS ALMOST CUT THE PICTURE WAS ALMOST CUT IN HALF.

IN HALF.

YOU WOULD SEE A REPRESENTATIONAL YOU WOULD SEE A REPRESENTATIONAL MOUNTAIN LANDSCAPE ON THE TOP, MOUNTAIN LANDSCAPE ON THE TOP, AND THEN YOU WOULD SEE A DRAINED AND THEN YOU WOULD SEE A DRAINED LAKE AT THE BOTTOM, AND THE LAKE AT THE BOTTOM, AND THE DRAINED LAKE WAS BASICALLY JUST DRAINED LAKE WAS BASICALLY JUST LIKE AN ABSTRACT PIECE, LIKE LIKE AN ABSTRACT PIECE, LIKE FIGURES AND FORMS AND LINES.

THE IDEA WAS TO HAVE THE IDEA WAS TO HAVE A REPRESENTATIONAL UPPER PART A REPRESENTATIONAL UPPER PART AND TO CREATE AN ABSTRACT LOWER AND TO CREATE AN ABSTRACT LOWER PART, AND YOU MIX THE TWO PART, AND YOU MIX THE TWO TOGETHER.

TOGETHER.

I'M ALWAYS MORE INTERESTED IN I'M ALWAYS MORE INTERESTED IN THE MIXTURE OF THOSE TWO, WHICH THE MIXTURE OF THOSE TWO, WHICH IS KIND OF HARD TO COMBINE IS KIND OF HARD TO COMBINE ABSTRACTION AND REPRESENTATION ABSTRACTION AND REPRESENTATION IN ONE IMAGE.

I STARTED WITH A BASIC DRAWING, I STARTED WITH A BASIC DRAWING, AND THEN I CONTINUE TO DRAW INTO AND THEN I CONTINUE TO DRAW INTO IT AND TURN IT MORE AND MORE IT AND TURN IT MORE AND MORE INTO A SCRIBBLE THAT HAS INTO A SCRIBBLE THAT HAS HUNDREDS OF LAYERS OF DOTS LIKE HUNDREDS OF LAYERS OF DOTS LIKE A POINTILLIST IMAGE.

ONE OF THE REASONS TO COME OUT ONE OF THE REASONS TO COME OUT HERE TO LOS ANGELES, BECAUSE HERE TO LOS ANGELES, BECAUSE IT'S NOT ONLY EXOTIC IN IT'S NOT ONLY EXOTIC IN A CERTAIN WAY, BUT YOU A CERTAIN WAY, BUT YOU UNDERSTAND THE CULTURE BECAUSE UNDERSTAND THE CULTURE BECAUSE YOU GROW UP WITH AMERICA.

YOU GROW UP WITH AMERICA.

YOU GET A FRESH LIGHT.

YOU GET A FRESH LIGHT.

YOU GET A NEW LANDSCAPE, YOU GET A NEW LANDSCAPE, AND THAT LANDSCAPE IS STILL AND THAT LANDSCAPE IS STILL SIGNIFICANT.

SIGNIFICANT.

IT HAS A GREAT MEANING, AND IT'S IT HAS A GREAT MEANING, AND IT'S THE END OF AMERICAN PIONEERISM.

THE END OF AMERICAN PIONEERISM.

IT'S THE END OF THE AMERICAN IT'S THE END OF THE AMERICAN WEST, AND FROM A GERMAN ASPECT, WEST, AND FROM A GERMAN ASPECT, IT'S ALSO THE END OF THE WORLD.

[electronic music] [electronic music] >> DEAR LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, >> DEAR LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I'M CHINA TRACY, THE AVATAR OF I'M CHINA TRACY, THE AVATAR OF CAO FEI, AND I'M HER CAO FEI, AND I'M HER INTERPRETER.

OUR GENERATION HAS GROWN UP IN OUR GENERATION HAS GROWN UP IN A FLUID AND MOBILE ENVIRONMENT A FLUID AND MOBILE ENVIRONMENT WHERE CULTURES MIX AND DIVERGE.

POP CULTURE HAS SPREAD RAPIDLY POP CULTURE HAS SPREAD RAPIDLY INTO EVERY CORNER OF CHINA.

INTO EVERY CORNER OF CHINA.

WHEN I WAS LITTLE, I WOULD GO WHEN I WAS LITTLE, I WOULD GO OUT AND LEARN STREET DANCE.

OUT AND LEARN STREET DANCE.

[speaking native language] [speaking native language] LATER, I FELL IN LOVE WITH LATER, I FELL IN LOVE WITH HIP-HOP MUSIC.

HIP-HOP MUSIC.

I SEE THE WORLD WITH A SENSE OF I SEE THE WORLD WITH A SENSE OF HUMOR, STREET CULTURE IS A VERY HUMOR, STREET CULTURE IS A VERY NATURAL, WILD, FREE, AND NATURAL, WILD, FREE, AND SPONTANEOUS FORM OF EXPRESSION.

SPONTANEOUS FORM OF EXPRESSION.

IT'S LIKE THE NOTION OF SAMPLING IT'S LIKE THE NOTION OF SAMPLING IN HIP-HOP, WHICH IS TO MIX ALL IN HIP-HOP, WHICH IS TO MIX ALL DIFFERENT KINDS OF THINGS DIFFERENT KINDS OF THINGS TOGETHER.

TOGETHER.

IN MUSIC VIDEOS, VISUALITY, IN MUSIC VIDEOS, VISUALITY, MONTAGE, MUSIC, AND IMAGERY ARE MONTAGE, MUSIC, AND IMAGERY ARE BLENDED INTO A SINGLE PROCESS.

PERHAPS MUSIC TAKES THE PLACE OF PERHAPS MUSIC TAKES THE PLACE OF SOME OF THE NARRATIVE AND SOME OF THE NARRATIVE AND FEELING.

FEELING.

MUSIC ITSELF BECOMES A VERY MUSIC ITSELF BECOMES A VERY EMOTIONAL PART OF THE WORK.

EMOTIONAL PART OF THE WORK.

IF I HAD GROWN UP JUST FOCUSING IF I HAD GROWN UP JUST FOCUSING ON THE WRITTEN WORD OR ON THE WRITTEN WORD OR PHOTOGRAPHY OR STILL IMAGES, PHOTOGRAPHY OR STILL IMAGES, MY WAY OF THINKING WOULD HAVE MY WAY OF THINKING WOULD HAVE BEEN TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

I HAD JUST GRADUATED FROM I HAD JUST GRADUATED FROM COLLEGE AND HAD OPPORTUNITY TO COLLEGE AND HAD OPPORTUNITY TO BECOME EXPOSED TO THE WORKING BECOME EXPOSED TO THE WORKING WORLD.

WORLD.

I GOT A TASTE OF REALITY IN I GOT A TASTE OF REALITY IN A PRETTY CLOSE AND INTIMATE WAY, A PRETTY CLOSE AND INTIMATE WAY, AND I FELT THAT I COULD CRITIQUE AND I FELT THAT I COULD CRITIQUE REALITY THROUGH MY ARTWORK.

REALITY THROUGH MY ARTWORK.

LOOKING BACK YEARS LATER, THE LOOKING BACK YEARS LATER, THE CRITIQUE SEEMS A BIT SEVERE, CRITIQUE SEEMS A BIT SEVERE, EVEN BLUNT.

EVEN BLUNT.

BUT MY LATER WORKS BEGAN TO BUT MY LATER WORKS BEGAN TO REFLECT ON A MORE THOROUGH REFLECT ON A MORE THOROUGH UNDERSTANDING OF SOCIETY AS UNDERSTANDING OF SOCIETY AS A WHOLE, AND THEY ARE QUITE A WHOLE, AND THEY ARE QUITE DIFFERENT FROM THE IMPULSIVE DIFFERENT FROM THE IMPULSIVE URGES OF THAT EARLY PERIOD.

AFTER I DID THE FIRST HIP-HOP AFTER I DID THE FIRST HIP-HOP PROJECT, I STARTED WORKING ON PROJECT, I STARTED WORKING ON COSPLAYERS.

COSPLAYERS.

WE TRANSLATE COSPLAY INTO WE TRANSLATE COSPLAY INTO CHINESE AS ROLE-PLAYING.

CHINESE AS ROLE-PLAYING.

IT GROWS FROM A GENERATION UNDER IT GROWS FROM A GENERATION UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF THE CARTOON THE INFLUENCE OF THE CARTOON CULTURE.

CULTURE.

NEITHER COSPLAYING NOR HIP-HOP NEITHER COSPLAYING NOR HIP-HOP IS NATIVE TO CHINA, BUT WHEN WE IS NATIVE TO CHINA, BUT WHEN WE EXPERIENCE IT, WE FEEL SOMEHOW EXPERIENCE IT, WE FEEL SOMEHOW THAT IT HAS BECOME VERY THAT IT HAS BECOME VERY INDIGENOUS AND ORIGINAL.

I WAS WORKING PART-TIME AS AN I WAS WORKING PART-TIME AS AN ART DIRECTOR FOR ADVERTISING ART DIRECTOR FOR ADVERTISING COMPANIES.

COMPANIES.

WHEN SCOUTING LOCATIONS, WE WHEN SCOUTING LOCATIONS, WE WOULD COME ACROSS RUINED SCENES WOULD COME ACROSS RUINED SCENES AND IMAGES.

AND IMAGES.

THOSE PLACES HAVE LEFT A DEEP THOSE PLACES HAVE LEFT A DEEP IMPRESSION ON ME.

IMPRESSION ON ME.

THESE SETTINGS AND BACKGROUNDS THESE SETTINGS AND BACKGROUNDS ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO THE ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO THE CHARACTERS AND HOW THEY RELATE CHARACTERS AND HOW THEY RELATE TO EACH OTHER.

EVEN IN REAL LIFE, THE EVEN IN REAL LIFE, THE COSPLAYERS PLACE THEMSELVES INTO COSPLAYERS PLACE THEMSELVES INTO CARTOON CHARACTERS ROLES SO MUCH CARTOON CHARACTERS ROLES SO MUCH THAT THEY CARRY THEIR CARTOON THAT THEY CARRY THEIR CARTOON ROLES INTO THEIR EVERYDAY LIVES.

ROLES INTO THEIR EVERYDAY LIVES.

IT IS A NEW KIND OF ROLE IT IS A NEW KIND OF ROLE REVERSAL WHICH ALSO REFLECTS THE REVERSAL WHICH ALSO REFLECTS THE YOUNGER GENERATION'S DISCONTENT YOUNGER GENERATION'S DISCONTENT WITH THEIR ROLES IN REAL LIFE.

WITH THEIR ROLES IN REAL LIFE.

COSPLAY REFLECTS THE GAP BETWEEN COSPLAY REFLECTS THE GAP BETWEEN THESE TWO GENERATIONS.

THESE TWO GENERATIONS.

NEITHER IS WILLING TO STRIKE NEITHER IS WILLING TO STRIKE A COMPROMISE OR REACH AN ACCORD A COMPROMISE OR REACH AN ACCORD WITH THE OTHER.

WHEN I GOT AN INVITATION FROM WHEN I GOT AN INVITATION FROM SIEMENS ELECTRIC, I STARTED TO SIEMENS ELECTRIC, I STARTED TO WHOSE UTOPIA.

WHOSE UTOPIA.

I THOUGHT THAT THIS MIGHT BE A I THOUGHT THAT THIS MIGHT BE A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO SHOOT INSIDE GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO SHOOT INSIDE A FACTORY, USUALLY VERY A FACTORY, USUALLY VERY DIFFICULT BECAUSE GENERALLY DIFFICULT BECAUSE GENERALLY THERE IS A HIGH LEVEL OF THERE IS A HIGH LEVEL OF COMMERCIAL PROTECTIONISM.

COMMERCIAL PROTECTIONISM.

IT'S NOT AN EXPOSE NOR IS IT IT'S NOT AN EXPOSE NOR IS IT ABOUT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.

ABOUT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS.

IT ATTEMPTS TO EXAMINE THIS IT ATTEMPTS TO EXAMINE THIS PARTICULAR KIND OF REALITY FROM PARTICULAR KIND OF REALITY FROM MULTIPLE ANGLES, HOW WORKERS ARE MULTIPLE ANGLES, HOW WORKERS ARE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR THE CHANCE ON THE LOOKOUT FOR THE CHANCE AND OPPORTUNITY TO SURVIVE.

IT ALSO HAS THIS AVATARLIKE IT ALSO HAS THIS AVATARLIKE ELEMENT WITH THE WORKERS ELEMENT WITH THE WORKERS ROLE-PLAYING THEIR FANTASIES.

ROLE-PLAYING THEIR FANTASIES.

I OFTEN HAVE THE FEELING THAT I OFTEN HAVE THE FEELING THAT THEY TRULY VALUE THIS KIND OF THEY TRULY VALUE THIS KIND OF OPPORTUNITY TO REMAKE OPPORTUNITY TO REMAKE THEMSELVES.

THEMSELVES.

FOR CORPORATIONS TO LET FOR CORPORATIONS TO LET ARTISTS CREATE WORKS WITH THE ARTISTS CREATE WORKS WITH THE FACTORY AS THE BACKDROP IS AN FACTORY AS THE BACKDROP IS AN ATTEMPT TO FORGE A CORPORATE ATTEMPT TO FORGE A CORPORATE CULTURE.

CULTURE.

WHAT ARTISTS DO IN REALITY IN WHAT ARTISTS DO IN REALITY IN THE ART WORLD IS NOT ALL THAT THE ART WORLD IS NOT ALL THAT IMPORTANT TO THE CORPORATION.

IMPORTANT TO THE CORPORATION.

WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS THE PROJECT WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS THE PROJECT THAT IS CREATED.

[delicate piano music] [delicate piano music] MY COMPOSER ZHANG ANDING MY COMPOSER ZHANG ANDING INTRODUCED ME TO SECOND LIFE IN INTRODUCED ME TO SECOND LIFE IN 2006.

2006.

HE WAS PURCHASING LAND IN AN HE WAS PURCHASING LAND IN AN ONLINE GAME, AND HE SAID THAT HE ONLINE GAME, AND HE SAID THAT HE CAN CONSTRUCT AND HAVE HIS OWN CAN CONSTRUCT AND HAVE HIS OWN SECOND LIFE.

SECOND LIFE.

SUBSEQUENTLY, I OPENED THIS SUBSEQUENTLY, I OPENED THIS ACCOUNT, MY ACCOUNT FOR ACCOUNT, MY ACCOUNT FOR CHINA TRACY.

CHINA TRACY.

I WAS ABSOLUTELY ENTHRALLED AND I WAS ABSOLUTELY ENTHRALLED AND SPELLBOUND BY IT FROM THE SPELLBOUND BY IT FROM THE BEGINNING.

BEGINNING.

I STARTED WITH THE VERY BASICS, I STARTED WITH THE VERY BASICS, HOW TO TAKE MY FIRST BABY STEPS, HOW TO TAKE MY FIRST BABY STEPS, AND HOW TO TALK TO PEOPLE.

AND HOW TO TALK TO PEOPLE.

THE WHOLE PROCESS WAS TOTALLY THE WHOLE PROCESS WAS TOTALLY CAPTIVATING AND RIVETING.

CAPTIVATING AND RIVETING.

CHINA IS HER SURNAME, CHINA IS HER SURNAME, TRACY THE GIVEN NAME.

TRACY THE GIVEN NAME.

I WANTED TO ENTER THIS VIRTUAL I WANTED TO ENTER THIS VIRTUAL WORLD WITH AN ORDINARY PERSON'S WORLD WITH AN ORDINARY PERSON'S PERSPECTIVE TO SEE WHAT WAS PERSPECTIVE TO SEE WHAT WAS HAPPENING OUT THERE.

HAPPENING OUT THERE.

IN THE BEGINNING, I WAS WORKING IN THE BEGINNING, I WAS WORKING WITH A SET OF PREDESIGNED WITH A SET OF PREDESIGNED PERSONAS THAT A NEW SECOND LIFE PERSONAS THAT A NEW SECOND LIFE USER CAN CHOOSE FROM WHEN USER CAN CHOOSE FROM WHEN CONSTRUCTING THEIR AVATAR.

CONSTRUCTING THEIR AVATAR.

OVER TIME, I SPENT A LOT OF OVER TIME, I SPENT A LOT OF MONEY BUYING HER SKIN, HER EYES, MONEY BUYING HER SKIN, HER EYES, HER FIGURE, AND EVEN HER SEX HER FIGURE, AND EVEN HER SEX ORGANS TO GIVE HER A MORE MODERN ORGANS TO GIVE HER A MORE MODERN LOOK.

MY DOCUMENTARY MADE IN MY DOCUMENTARY MADE IN SECOND LIFE, HAS A FEMININE SECOND LIFE, HAS A FEMININE PERSPECTIVE.

PERSPECTIVE.

IN THIS DOCUMENTARY, YOU WILL IN THIS DOCUMENTARY, YOU WILL SEE A STRONG SENSE OF SELFHOOD, SEE A STRONG SENSE OF SELFHOOD, A SENSE OF USING MY OWN BODY, MY A SENSE OF USING MY OWN BODY, MY OWN SELF TO EXPLORE THIS WORLD.

THE ENCOUNTER BETWEEN ME AND THE ENCOUNTER BETWEEN ME AND HUG YUE OCCURRED WHEN I WAS HUG YUE OCCURRED WHEN I WAS EXPLORING AROUND IN MY ONLINE EXPLORING AROUND IN MY ONLINE JOURNEY.

JOURNEY.

I SAW A VERY HANDSOME GUY I SAW A VERY HANDSOME GUY PLAYING A PIANO.

PLAYING A PIANO.

I WAS DRAWN BY THE PIANO MUSIC, I WAS DRAWN BY THE PIANO MUSIC, WHICH WAS VERY ROMANTIC.

WHICH WAS VERY ROMANTIC.

QUIETLY AND SECRETIVELY, I STOOD QUIETLY AND SECRETIVELY, I STOOD AT A DISTANCE, SHOOTING THE AT A DISTANCE, SHOOTING THE SCENE OF HIM PLAYING THE PIANO.

SCENE OF HIM PLAYING THE PIANO.

AFTER A WHILE, HE ASKED AFTER A WHILE, HE ASKED CHINA TRACY FOR A DANCE.

CHINA TRACY FOR A DANCE.

WE BEGAN TO GET TO KNOW EACH WE BEGAN TO GET TO KNOW EACH OTHER, AND I FOUND HIM OTHER, AND I FOUND HIM A GENTLEMAN WITH A FINE SENSE A GENTLEMAN WITH A FINE SENSE OF HUMOR.

OF HUMOR.

THERE ARE MANY ROMANTIC STORIES THERE ARE MANY ROMANTIC STORIES LIKE THIS ONE IN SECOND LIFE LIKE THIS ONE IN SECOND LIFE BETWEEN ONE MALE AND ONE FEMALE BETWEEN ONE MALE AND ONE FEMALE AVATAR.

AVATAR.

BUT PERHAPS BEHIND THE SCENES, BUT PERHAPS BEHIND THE SCENES, THERE MAY BE TWO FEMALES, BUT IN THERE MAY BE TWO FEMALES, BUT IN REAL LIFE THEY ARE TWO GUYS.

REAL LIFE THEY ARE TWO GUYS.

NONETHELESS, ROMANCE STILL NONETHELESS, ROMANCE STILL TRANSPIRES BETWEEN THESE AVATARS TRANSPIRES BETWEEN THESE AVATARS LIKE THE CASE WITH ME AND LIKE THE CASE WITH ME AND HUG YUE, EVEN THOUGH IT DID NOT HUG YUE, EVEN THOUGH IT DID NOT ULTIMATELY LEAD TO A FULL-BLOWN ULTIMATELY LEAD TO A FULL-BLOWN ROMANCE.

ROMANCE.

I FINALLY LEARNED THAT HE WAS I FINALLY LEARNED THAT HE WAS ABOUT 67, A FAIRLY OLD GUY IN ABOUT 67, A FAIRLY OLD GUY IN REAL LIFE.

REAL LIFE.

HE IS A COMMUNIST, A BIG FAN OF HE IS A COMMUNIST, A BIG FAN OF MARX, AND HE WOULD OFTEN WEAR MARX, AND HE WOULD OFTEN WEAR A T-SHIRT WITH MARX'S IMAGE.

A T-SHIRT WITH MARX'S IMAGE.

SO I GOT TO SEE BOTH HIS SO I GOT TO SEE BOTH HIS ROMANTIC AND IDEALISTIC SIDES.

ROMANTIC AND IDEALISTIC SIDES.

I ALSO GOT THE IMPRESSION OF HIM I ALSO GOT THE IMPRESSION OF HIM BEING VERY POLITICAL AND BEING VERY POLITICAL AND ZEALOUS, HAVING A KIND OF-- ZEALOUS, HAVING A KIND OF-- IN MAO'S WORDS-- IN MAO'S WORDS-- ROMANTIC HEROISM.

ROMANTIC HEROISM.

YOU CAN PEEK YOU CAN PEEK INTO THE DIGITAL WORLD.

INTO THE DIGITAL WORLD.

EVERYTHING IS MUCH MORE INTENSE EVERYTHING IS MUCH MORE INTENSE THAN THE REAL WORLD.

THAN THE REAL WORLD.

IT'S MUCH MORE UNBRIDLED IT'S MUCH MORE UNBRIDLED AND WILD.

AND WILD.

THAT'S WHY SO MANY PEOPLE GET THAT'S WHY SO MANY PEOPLE GET HOOKED ON SECOND LIFE.

HOOKED ON SECOND LIFE.

IN IT, THEY TRY TO FIND A KIND IN IT, THEY TRY TO FIND A KIND OF LIFE WITH EMOTIONS THAT THEY OF LIFE WITH EMOTIONS THAT THEY WANT FOR THEMSELVES IN REAL WANT FOR THEMSELVES IN REAL LIFE.

LIFE.

BUT IN THE END, YOU WILL FIND BUT IN THE END, YOU WILL FIND THAT IN THIS DOCUMENTARY, THAT IN THIS DOCUMENTARY, THAT IS SOMETHING BEYOND REACH.

RMB CITY WAS CONCEIVED WHILE I RMB CITY WAS CONCEIVED WHILE I WAS STILL EXPLORING SECOND LIFE.

I WAS WONDERING IF I COULD HAVE I WAS WONDERING IF I COULD HAVE MY OWN COMMUNITY AND MY OWN CITY MY OWN COMMUNITY AND MY OWN CITY BUILT PURELY BY MYSELF.

BUILT PURELY BY MYSELF.

SO I STARTED TO ENVISION WHAT SO I STARTED TO ENVISION WHAT THIS CITY MIGHT LOOK LIKE.

RMB CITY RMB CITY WAS BASICALLY FINISHED.

WAS BASICALLY FINISHED.

IT'S AN IMAGINING, A DRAFT IT'S AN IMAGINING, A DRAFT DESIGN OF THE OVERALL APPEARANCE DESIGN OF THE OVERALL APPEARANCE OF THIS CITY.

IT REPRESENTS THE BUILDING AND IT REPRESENTS THE BUILDING AND DEVELOPMENT OF AN URBAN CENTER DEVELOPMENT OF AN URBAN CENTER WITH ALL THAT ENTAILS: WITH ALL THAT ENTAILS: INVESTMENT, EXPANSION, INVESTMENT, EXPANSION, OVERDEVELOPMENT.

OVERDEVELOPMENT.

WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS TO MAKE AN WHAT'S IMPORTANT IS TO MAKE AN IMAGINARY CITY RUN SMOOTHLY LIKE IMAGINARY CITY RUN SMOOTHLY LIKE A REAL ONE.

WE FIRST CAME UP WITH A LIST OF WE FIRST CAME UP WITH A LIST OF OPTIONS FOR ALL THE DIFFERENT OPTIONS FOR ALL THE DIFFERENT COMPONENTS IN THE BUILDING OF COMPONENTS IN THE BUILDING OF THE CITY, THE CITY, DIFFERENT BUILDINGS AND DIFFERENT BUILDINGS AND LANDMARKS THAT WE ABSOLUTELY LANDMARKS THAT WE ABSOLUTELY WANT TO HAVE IN THE CITYSCAPE.

WE DESIGNED AN URBAN PLAN BY WE DESIGNED AN URBAN PLAN BY COMBINING THESE DIFFERENT COMBINING THESE DIFFERENT COMPONENTS UTILIZING COLLAGES.

COMPONENTS UTILIZING COLLAGES.

OUR NEXT STEP WAS TO FEED THE OUR NEXT STEP WAS TO FEED THE DESIGN INTO THREE-DIMENSIONAL DESIGN INTO THREE-DIMENSIONAL SOFTWARE TO BUILD IT UP INTO AN SOFTWARE TO BUILD IT UP INTO AN ARCHITECTURAL MODEL.

ARCHITECTURAL MODEL.

THEN WE TURNED THIS SOFTWARE THEN WE TURNED THIS SOFTWARE OVER TO OUR VIRTUAL ARCHITECTS OVER TO OUR VIRTUAL ARCHITECTS TO BE UPLOADED INTO SECOND LIFE.

I WOULD PREFER IT TO BE A MORE I WOULD PREFER IT TO BE A MORE OPEN ENVIRONMENT WHERE YOU CAN OPEN ENVIRONMENT WHERE YOU CAN KEEP ADDING THINGS TO IMPLEMENT KEEP ADDING THINGS TO IMPLEMENT WHATEVER IDEAS YOU COME UP WITH.

WHATEVER IDEAS YOU COME UP WITH.

WE'RE NOW AT A STAGE WHERE WE WE'RE NOW AT A STAGE WHERE WE HAVE TO FEEL OUR WAY OR AS HAVE TO FEEL OUR WAY OR AS DENG XIAOPING SAID, "CROSS THE DENG XIAOPING SAID, "CROSS THE RIVER BY TOUCHING THE STONES."

TAKE OUR CURRENT MAYORAL PROGRAM TAKE OUR CURRENT MAYORAL PROGRAM FOR EXAMPLE.

FOR EXAMPLE.

EACH MAYOR WILL SERVE EACH MAYOR WILL SERVE A THREE-MONTH TERM FOR RMB CITY A THREE-MONTH TERM FOR RMB CITY AND BE FREE TO MAKE HIS OWN AND BE FREE TO MAKE HIS OWN POLICIES AND DECISIONS OR TO POLICIES AND DECISIONS OR TO HAVE HER OWN INTERPRETATION OF HAVE HER OWN INTERPRETATION OF THE CITY.

THE CITY.

I THINK THIS ALSO RELEASES ME I THINK THIS ALSO RELEASES ME FROM ANY RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP FROM ANY RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP CONTROL OF THE CITY.

CONTROL OF THE CITY.

THERE WILL BE NO PARTY THERE WILL BE NO PARTY COMMITTEE.

COMMITTEE.

WE WILL HAVE A BOARD WE WILL HAVE A BOARD OF DIRECTORS.

OF DIRECTORS.

WE'LL HAVE A JUDICIAL SYSTEM WE'LL HAVE A JUDICIAL SYSTEM WITH A JUDGE SOMEWHAT LIKE WITH A JUDGE SOMEWHAT LIKE LEGENDARY BAO GONG, THE CHINESE LEGENDARY BAO GONG, THE CHINESE EMBODIMENT OF JUSTICE.

RMB CITY IS IN MANY WAYS LIKE RMB CITY IS IN MANY WAYS LIKE THE PAINTING FROM THE HAN THE PAINTING FROM THE HAN DYNASTY, WITH CLOUDS AND MIST, DYNASTY, WITH CLOUDS AND MIST, HILLS AND RIVERS, AND THE HILLS AND RIVERS, AND THE INTERRELATIONSHIP BETWEEN INTERRELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HUMANS AND NATURE.

HUMANS AND NATURE.

IT MADE ME WONDER IF THIS IT MADE ME WONDER IF THIS AESTHETIC IS DEEPLY ROOTED AESTHETIC IS DEEPLY ROOTED IN THE ASIAN WAY OF THINKING.

IN THE ASIAN WAY OF THINKING.

I'VE ALWAYS BEEN LOOKING FOR I'VE ALWAYS BEEN LOOKING FOR THESE CONNECTIONS, THESE CONNECTIONS, THE DIFFERENCES AND SIMILARITIES THE DIFFERENCES AND SIMILARITIES BETWEEN THE PAST AND PRESENT, BETWEEN THE PAST AND PRESENT, THE ASIAN AND THE WESTERN.

RMB IS THE ABBREVIATION FOR THE RMB IS THE ABBREVIATION FOR THE RENMINBI.

RENMINBI.

MEANS THE PEOPLE, THE MEANS THE PEOPLE, THE GENERAL POPULATION, AND THE "R" GENERAL POPULATION, AND THE "R" COULD ALMOST STAND FOR REPUBLIC COULD ALMOST STAND FOR REPUBLIC OR REVOLUTION.

OR REVOLUTION.

IN CHINESE, THE NAME SOUNDS LIKE IN CHINESE, THE NAME SOUNDS LIKE THE PEOPLE'S CITY.

THE PEOPLE'S CITY.

SO IT COMES TO TAKE ON ALL THESE SO IT COMES TO TAKE ON ALL THESE ASSOCIATIVE MEANINGS.

ASSOCIATIVE MEANINGS.

I THINK IT SOUNDS LIKE "REMEMBER I THINK IT SOUNDS LIKE "REMEMBER CITY," A CITY OF MEMORIES.

I DON'T THINK THAT BUILDING MY I DON'T THINK THAT BUILDING MY OWN CITY IS AN EXPRESSION OWN CITY IS AN EXPRESSION OF INDIVIDUALISM.

OF INDIVIDUALISM.

I FEEL IT IS PRECISELY AN I FEEL IT IS PRECISELY AN ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF THE BELIEF IN ACKNOWLEDGMENT OF THE BELIEF IN AND THE PRACTICE OF DEMOCRACY.

AND THE PRACTICE OF DEMOCRACY.

I THINK THIS PROJECT WILL LEAD I THINK THIS PROJECT WILL LEAD TO THE FOUNDATION ON WHICH TO TO THE FOUNDATION ON WHICH TO EXPERIMENT WITH UTOPIAN EXPERIMENT WITH UTOPIAN PRACTICES.

>> announcer: NEXT TIME >> announcer: NEXT TIME ART:21, ART:21, ART IN THE 21ST CENTURY... ART IN THE 21ST CENTURY... >> I WANTED TO MAKE PICTURES >> I WANTED TO MAKE PICTURES THAT WERE REALLY IN YOUR FACE.

THAT WERE REALLY IN YOUR FACE.

I'M NOT TRYING TO SATISFY I'M NOT TRYING TO SATISFY AN AUDIENCE.

AN AUDIENCE.

MY RESPONSIBILITY IS TO THE MY RESPONSIBILITY IS TO THE IDEA.

IDEA.

>> I'VE ALWAYS ENJOYED USING >> I'VE ALWAYS ENJOYED USING BEAUTY AND SEDUCTION AS A WAY OF BEAUTY AND SEDUCTION AS A WAY OF ENGAGING PEOPLE.

CaptionMax CaptionMax www.captionmax.com >> announcer: TO LEARN MORE >> announcer: TO LEARN MORE ART: 21, ART: 21, ART IN THE 21ST CENTURY ART IN THE 21ST CENTURY AND ITS EDUCATIONAL RESOURCES, AND ITS EDUCATIONAL RESOURCES, PLEASE VISIT US ONLINE AT: ART:21, ART IN THE 21ST CENTURY ART:21, ART IN THE 21ST CENTURY IS AVAILABLE ON BLU-RAY AND DVD.

IS AVAILABLE ON BLU-RAY AND DVD.

THE COMPANION BOOK IS ALSO THE COMPANION BOOK IS ALSO AVAILABLE.

AVAILABLE.

TO ORDER, VISIT US ONLINE AT: TO ORDER, VISIT US ONLINE AT: OR CALL PBS HOME VIDEO AT: